RFK Jr and his petition to Open the Files

[Leslie Sharp]

@Paul Brancato not to derail the topic, but what worse things. Mike Johnson’s Alliance for the Defense of Freedom.  Leonard Leo’s final and complete take over of the Supreme Court? Steve Miller, Bannon and Stone as the acceptable face of the Reich.  Liberals aren’t the only Americans who should be very very worried. This isn’t partisanship, this is a battle for OUR Constitution and OUR democratically elected republic. Trump was the Trojan Horse.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

@Mart Hall I accept both Trump and Biden may have failed to follow the letter of the law, and that case should be heard by the Supreme Court. 

[Leslie Sharp]

@John Cotter I’m pointing out the burden any administration carries.  Trump, in spite of his blathering bluster promising to take down the “deep state” (a misnomer if ever there was one*) backed down.

*I’m told that Prof. Peter Dale Scott says among any regrets, introducing that term into the popular lexicon in place of the Military-Industrial Complex, ranks high.  Does anyone think Trump would take down the Military-Industrial Complex which employs tens of millions of voters?  On the contrary, he poured trillions into it, and increased our debt in the process. He/they are after our institutions and judicial system that safeguard our democracy, full stop. 

[Greg Doudna]

39 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@Greg Doudna You have no understanding of policy continuity if you argue the 1960’s aren’t reflected in current geopolitics. 60 years are a blip on the screen of the Great Game.  
 

Why haven’t you researched the Kameradenwerke, the Grand Mufti and the Reich, the French Connection, the blowback of Algeria’s war for independence, Ethiopia/Eritrea and the Italians, Ireland’s ‘neutrality’ and the Nazis, NATO and INTERPOL in context of the assassination v. 2017 when Trump failed to deliver.
 

 Had Kennedy lived, what would our policies look like today? No doubt you argue his influence would still be apparent on the global stage after just 60 years? Or are you still staring at Cuba and Vietnam?

Irrelevant to the point Leslie. You’re blowing a blizzard of snow.

The issue is should hypothetical possible embarrassment to allies today justify refusal to release certain records related to the JFK assassination from sixty years ago. And the answer must be no. 

Let the truth come out. Let there be sunlight. If uncomfortable, let there be a national soul-searching and reckoning. But enough of the apologia for continued holding of secrets surrounding that assassination by decision of gatekeepers themselves not above suspicion of institutional interests in the matter.

[Joe Bauer]

Files worldwide are routinely destroyed as much as they are kept.

We all know this.

Within one day after Oswald was whacked by Ruby, the Dallas FBI field office head ordered underling agent James Hosty to "get rid of it ", meaning destroy their Oswald file - which he did.

Mark Meadows aide Cassidy Hutchison testified under oath that Meadows was throwing so many file contents into his burning office fireplace right after the general election you could smell the smoke from outside. So many others were flushed down toilets they had to call the White House Roto-Rooter team to constantly unclog their lines.

Huge chunks of Jim Garrison's files went missing once he was replaced as NO DA.

Guy Banister's files, same thing. 

Watergate era FBI head L. Patrick Grey "admitted" he burned files from E. Howard Hunt's White House office safe.

Nicola Tesla's files just disappeared immediately upon his death.

Same thing with J. Edgar Hoover's home files upon his death.

What's one of the first things 20th century era armies did when they knew they were defeated and about to be overrun? Burn all their important files.

Random analogies aside, the destruction of majorly important files worldwide has always been as routine as keeping them...for centuries.

Based on this historical fact I simply can't believe any "truly revealing" files connected to the JFKA in agency hands are still intact.

Still today, too much to risk.

Our most powerful black budget agencies will never let anything that could threaten their very existence become available to the general public. They would destroy such before they would risk losing their 4th branch of government status and control influence.

Control and influence JFK himself challenged...and lost to.

Why can't Tucker Carlson finally reveal his inside source who he says knows who did JFK...and save us all from this never ending and exhausting 60 year long hidden files frustration angst?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Brancato]

52 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@John Cotter I’m pointing out the burden any administration carries.  Trump, in spite of his blathering bluster promising to take down the “deep state” (a misnomer if ever there was one*) backed down.

*I’m told that Prof. Peter Dale Scott says among any regrets, introducing that term into the popular lexicon in place of the Military-Industrial Complex, ranks high.  Does anyone think Trump would take down the Military-Industrial Complex which employs tens of millions of voters?  On the contrary, he poured trillions into it, and increased our debt in the process. He/they are after our institutions and judicial system that safeguard our democracy, full stop. 

And Biden’s military budget was even larger. What’s worse than Trump? Endless war for one. in 2016 and 2020 the efforts by the Democratic Party insiders to deny Bernie Sanders a fair shot at the nomination shows their true Empire driven colors. Go back and watch the whole 1963 JFK ‘Peace speech’. Ponder who killed him and why, and then fast forward to today where we are told every day in every way that we have no choice but to back the Pax Americana JFK warned about. The decade long declining American life span, the obscene cost of higher education and quality health care, the lack of equal opportunity, and a host of other things I could enumerate, are not the fault of one party or another but of a rigged system. We are in this predicament because we allowed our own institutions to fail to protect our Democracy and to cover up crimes of State, and we are still at it, turning a blind eye to the corruption within. Making sure Trump never sets foot in the White House again does nothing to change the trajectory we are on, but gives us a false sense of hope and pride, and to me that may even be worse because it is so insidious. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

9 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

And Biden’s military budget was even larger. What’s worse than Trump? Endless war for one. in 2016 and 2020 the efforts by the Democratic Party insiders to deny Bernie Sanders a fair shot at the nomination shows their true Empire driven colors. Go back and watch the whole 1963 JFK ‘Peace speech’. Ponder who killed him and why, and then fast forward to today where we are told every day in every way that we have no choice but to back the Pax Americana JFK warned about. The decade long declining American life span, the obscene cost of higher education and quality health care, the lack of equal opportunity, and a host of other things I could enumerate, are not the fault of one party or another but of a rigged system. We are in this predicament because we allowed our own institutions to fail to protect our Democracy and to cover up crimes of State, and we are still at it, turning a blind eye to the corruption within. Making sure Trump never sets foot in the White House again does nothing to change the trajectory we are on, but gives us a false sense of hope and pride, and to me that may even be worse because it is so insidious. 

Paul, I'll grant you made an honest attempt to answer Leslie's questions that in part answers mine.

Paul: What’s worse than Trump? Endless war for one.

Yes that's what Talbot would tell you. But that's sort of a  trap in thinking. As far as Ukraine, both Biden and Trump at first would have done identical things. That is let Putin invade and take Ukraine. Biden was prepared to do that but Zelensky said he didn't need to be provided exile,  but needed U.S. and Nato assistance. Biden obliged and revived Nato assistance. It's not at all for sure whether  Trump had the courage to resist Congress's will  to help Ukraine, or he had no choice but to not help because he was so compromised by Putin, and/ or  would have just let Nato sink because he didn't care about it anyway. After all, he could have quickly gotten out of Afghanistan  when he first got into office, and released the JFK files, but he did neither of those either. He never proved to be that courageous in anything but rhetoric except trying to overthrow a legal election.

As far as Israel. Trump  has his Jared tie to Israel. Despite his bold claims that he could solve the Russia Ukraine problem in 5 minutes just getting together with Putin and Zelensky, His public statements made about Israel has been that the 2 sides just have "to play it out", which means more human suffering, and no attempt at a cease fire. It would be even a bloodier mess because there would be no will in Congress to avoid that! The only real opposition would be Bernie Sanders and a handful of lefties, so be careful what you wish for!

You would never have heard Trump give rhetoric to a 2 state solution. He was completely behind Netanyahu and his right wing cabinet, which has in part lead to this war.

Ok, I'm not holding my breathe, but if a year from now . Biden was actually able to set the region on what the world perceived as a peaceful steady road  to a 2 state solution. He would be remembered as the  only President in the post war era to a achieve a 2 state solution, which would probably make him go down as a great President. At a certain point, he's going to have to crack down on Israel, possibly withhold aid, and hope that when the smoke can clear that the Israeli people  get rid of Netanyahu, and work with the neighboring countries of region for a lasting peace. But all the time that's currently passing is robbing him of credibility in the region. It's probably the most challenging feat any President could achieve since navigating the Cuban Missile Crisis, and you're certainly entitled to think Biden is completely inadequate to pull it off.

But if all this mess, could be gradually played out right. All the memories of atrocities and suffering that should have, IMO stopped over a month ago would slowly recede in history's memory because after all history is written by the winners.  But if the winners then have to give up their some of their land.  As time goes on, all the death and destruction and loss of human life will be seen as a means to an end. As they are in all wars.

JMO

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[Leslie Sharp]

@Greg Doudna Naiveté or deliberate deflection?  I'm not talking about "embarassment."

[Benjamin Cole]

People can have legitimate concerns about Trump. 

But, egads, he is a bonsai tree in a redwood forest of anti-democratic forces in America. 

Trump is totally without institutional allies in Washington. Read that again.

Trump lacks the same allies---the intel agencies, the Pentagon, the State Dept, the Justice Dept, the legacy media, global commercial enterprise---that make the D- and R-parties so entrenched, undemocratic and globalist in nature. 

Biden? Served as the chairman or ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for twelve years---and before that he was a member on the committee. Then veep under Obama. The guy is a party trencherman, and the party represents Wall Street. This is democracy?  I assume readers here are aware how Sanders was torpedoed by the DNC. 

And now Biden has done a permanent snuff job on the JFK Records Act. If this is defensible, then anything is defensible. 

As I say, right now I would vote for Attila the Hun if I believed he would open up the JFK Records. 

I will likely vote for any major candidate not affiliated with the two major parties. 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

A Donald Trump election would be the end of American Democracy; we would switch to a new form of government: fake elections, like the ones held in Hungary and Russia.

So trying to pretend Joe Biden is bad compared to Trump is factually one of most ridiculous things a sentient lifeform can say on this forum.

As far as the files go, it's no secret that at this point Biden's opponents have chosen to use it as a pure political cudgel.

We all know that there is nothing in those files that will solve the riddle of LHO's 1963 actions in New Orleans, Mexico City, and Dallas. That ship sailed long ago.

[Leslie Sharp]

@Benjamin Cole Trump has the Heritage Foundation (founded by shadow representatives of US largest military contractors), American Conservative Union /  CPAC founded by remnants of pro- fascist America First Committee, the NRA whose former president left The YAF and American Conservative Union to head up the NRA and lobby for arms manufacturers, Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society, and the shadowy Alliance for Defense of Freedom lobbying to deny US citizens their rights. I'm leaving out his personal ties to mob-types in NYC and FL --- Alexander Bauer being the most recent of his scandals.  So, tell me again, Trump has no institutional allies?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

A Donald Trump election would be the end of American Democracy; we would switch to a new form of government: fake elections, like the ones held in Hungary and Russia.

So trying to pretend Joe Biden is bad compared to Trump is factually one of most ridiculous things a sentient lifeform can say on this forum.

 

Speaking as a sentient lifeform on this forum, Matt, I agree with you entirely.

The denial of Trump's historic crimes and anti-democratic agenda by some people on this forum never ceases to amaze.

Good Lord, the man already incited an armed right-wing mob to attack the U.S. Congress in an attempt to remain in power!  

And Trump and his proto-fascist cult continue to pose a serious threat to the survival of American democracy and the rule of law.

Have our local Biden bashers taken the time to study what happened to the Weimar Republic's constitutional democracy after 1932? 

The Nazi Party ascended to power that year with just 37% of the vote-- in a politically fragmented, multi-party election.

Yet, by 1933, the Nazis had declared martial law, (after burning down the Reichstag) outlawed opposition parties, and began incarcerating opposition politicians at Dachau.

This, more than anything, is what concerns me about third party candidates in 2024.

Democrats need to remain united against the anti-democratic, proto-fascist Trump cult.

Edited November 29, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@Benjamin Cole Trump has the Heritage Foundation (founded by shadow representatives of US largest military contractors), American Conservative Union /  CPAC founded by remnants of pro- fascist America First Committee, the NRA whose former president left The YAF and American Conservative Union to head up the NRA and lobby for arms manufacturers, Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society, and the shadowy Alliance for Defense of Freedom lobbying to deny US citizens their rights. I'm leaving out his personal ties to mob-types in NYC and FL --- Alexander Bauer being the most recent of his scandals.  So, tell me again, Trump has no institutional allies?

 

2 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@Benjamin Cole Trump has the Heritage Foundation (founded by shadow representatives of US largest military contractors), American Conservative Union /  CPAC founded by remnants of pro- fascist America First Committee, the NRA whose former president left The YAF and American Conservative Union to head up the NRA and lobby for arms manufacturers, Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society, and the shadowy Alliance for Defense of Freedom lobbying to deny US citizens their rights. I'm leaving out his personal ties to mob-types in NYC and FL --- Alexander Bauer being the most recent of his scandals.  So, tell me again, Trump has no institutional allies?

Sheesh, those Trump backers you mention are ants next to Biden's battleship backers. Parts of Fox also also Trump supporters, at least from what little I see. 

In comparison, Biden has the intel agencies, the Pentagon, the State Dept, the Justice Dept, the legacy media, global commercial enterprise.

Biden is backed by the NYT, WaPo, NBC...legacy media....then also Apple, GM, Disney, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BlackRock, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Facebook. The DNC. Wall Street lobbyists, think tanks, foundations. Do you have any idea of how much money, power and influence is backing Biden? 

It is interesting why the public in Western democracies is turning on elected establishment leaders is a gigantic topic, but even a book could only scratch the surface, and won't endeavor to tackle the topic in this format. 

Suffice it say the Donks and 'Phants have failed the public and made it obvious they are not working Mr. and Mrs. America. 

Most voters do not like Trump. They just dislike him less than the options, and 50 years of declining living standards, and increasing coarseness in public life. 

But relax. I likely will not vote for Trump. His character/personality appears deficient. 

RFK2 is interesting, and I think he will open up the JFK Records.

I disagree with Matt A. The reason the records are being suppressed is that the tenacious JFK research community has shown an ability to connect dots.  Like Joannides records from New Orleans, and the Bill Harvey records. 

But as for a Trump election, I shrug my shoulders. It will not be TEOTWAWKI. Trump was already president fro four years, and nothing happened, except some changing of terms of trade with China, and perhaps a little more border security.  Big whoop. 

 

[Leslie Sharp]

@Benjamin Cole “nothing happened” Are you serious? Trump tried to topple democracy; normalized despots including Kim Jong Un, Victor Orban, Vladimir Putin; cost tens of thousands of lives during the global panic because of his toxic narcissistic hubris; degraded women, citizens with disabilities, Muslims, Mexicans, Asians, African Americans; told over 20,000 lies over the course of his presidency; separated families; humiliated our country on the global stage; was impeached twice, indicted on 91 counts including endangering national security and inciting insurrection. He tried to overthrow our election and has said on record he would suspend the Constitution ... should I continue?
 

I didn’t say “Biden has no institutional alliances.” You said Trump has no institutional alliances. I provided you a short list to prove otherwise.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Benjamin Cole]

23 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@Benjamin Cole “nothing happened” Are you serious? Trump tried to topple democracy; normalized despots including Kim Jong Un, Victor Orban, Vladimir Putin; cost tens of thousands of lives during the global panic because of his toxic narcissistic hubris; degraded women, citizens with disabilities, Muslims, Mexicans, Asians, African Americans; told over 20,000 lies over the course of his presidency; separated families; humiliated our country on the global stage; was impeached twice, indicted on 91 counts including endangering national security and inciting insurrection. He tried to overthrow our election and has said on record he would suspend the Constitution ... should I continue?
 

I didn’t say “Biden has no institutional alliances.” You said Trump has no institutional alliances. I provided you a short list to prove otherwise.

Well, we are on different pages on this one. 

Biden has huge and powerful anti-democratic institutions who put him into the White House, and will likely keep him there. 

Trump has these little Mutt-and-Jeff shops, and political oddballs, backing him. 

But rest easy. They are not letting Trump back into the White House. 

Even RFK2 is...hard to say, 2-to-1 against? 

That is, if RFK2 lives.