The Paine Files

[Ron Bulman]

I'm trolling you?  Funny, with your long distracting posts.   What this comes down to is which do you trust most.  His Friday night right after it happened Sheriff's Department report of 6 or 7 boxes of Castro supporter info.  Or what the FBI says it found out about four days later in a cop's office concerning 3 boxes of Ruth's fluff.  Cover for Walther's 6 or 7?  

[David Andrews]

I wonder what the "diary of Mrs. Paine" would be like, as bedtime reading.

Edited January 26, 2021 by David Andrews

[Bill Simpich]

The FBI found 10,000 pages in the three metal file boxes - and apparently kept no copies.  They said they would turn it all over to the WC and let them decide - even of her diary.  They provide a list based on "quick perusal".

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57758#relPageId=132&search="metal_boxes"

To be scrupulously fair, Ruth argued that she did not give consent for them to remove her personal documents from her bedroom closet, and that many of the documents were personal and/or referred to marital discord of her parents.

But Ruth told them to return only what was "pertinent" - apparently the FBI returned everything - but I want to see the proof of return.  Looking for that.

The FBI did have in their files - by whatever means - four letters from Ruth to Marina, one in May, two in July, one in August - we can assume those were in Marina's possession.  I do believe the WC published these.

On another date, I'll let you know what the WC did with Ruth's material, including the three metal boxes and the diary - I've wondered about this for awhile.

[Gary Murr]

Hey Bill:

Probably old news to you, but as the link below indicates, though the FBI and WC discussed this subject matter in late January, 1964, note that the FBI did not return these materials to Ruth until late April, 1964.  FWIW

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9988#relPageId=117&search=SULLIVAN_BRANNIGAN RUTH PAINE METAL CABINET 

 

[Joseph McBride]

Calvin, could you please post the rest of that document? That website link seems iffy. And what is the provenance and context of the affidavit?

Edited June 3, 2021 by Joseph McBride

[Gene Kelly]

.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Gene Kelly
deleted

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/21/2017 at 8:57 AM, Paul Brancato said:

Or they would have leant credence to the idea that Oswald was part of an intelligence operation.

Bingo.  And the Paine's as well.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Calvin Ye]

6 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Calvin, could you please post the rest of that document? That website link seems iffy. And what is the provenance and context of the affidavit?

https://cryptome.org/2014/11/armadeus.pdf

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Edited June 4, 2021 by Calvin Ye

[Joseph McBride]

Thank you, Calvin.

 

[Calvin Ye]

Just now, Joseph McBride said:

Thank you, Calvin.

 

Do you want me to email you the affidavit?

[Ron Bulman]

deleted

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Andrew Prutsok]

On 1/24/2021 at 10:14 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Maybe we need to bump this post too for Greg.  Paine telling Walthers over the ironing board "He's a Communist".  If that's not Michael implicating Lee I don't know what is.

Spent some time down in our paper's basement yesterday reading 1963 coverage of the assassination. Noticed this in a Monday, Nov. 26 AP article headlined: There was little abut Lee Oswald to warn world that he was coming":

...(Michael) Paine said Oswald talked Marxism, Marxism, Marxism.

"Oswald refused to eschew violence as a method for achieving desired ends."

Tried to post a photo of it but I can't get the file to be small enough.

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/3/2021 at 3:01 PM, Bill Simpich said:

The FBI found 10,000 pages in the three metal file boxes - and apparently kept no copies.  They said they would turn it all over to the WC and let them decide - even of her diary.  They provide a list based on "quick perusal".

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57758#relPageId=132&search="metal_boxes"

To be scrupulously fair, Ruth argued that she did not give consent for them to remove her personal documents from her bedroom closet, and that many of the documents were personal and/or referred to marital discord of her parents.

But Ruth told them to return only what was "pertinent" - apparently the FBI returned everything - but I want to see the proof of return.  Looking for that.

The FBI did have in their files - by whatever means - four letters from Ruth to Marina, one in May, two in July, one in August - we can assume those were in Marina's possession.  I do believe the WC published these.

On another date, I'll let you know what the WC did with Ruth's material, including the three metal boxes and the diary - I've wondered about this for awhile.

Thanks for this Bill.  I haven't finished re reading this whole thread but I don't remember seeing the 10,000 pages part before.  My first thought was that's a lot of correspondence with family, friends, other Quakers in addition to some educational records.

My second thought was of the 6-7 small metal file cabinets, with a handle on the top, described by Sheriffs Deputy Buddy Walthers in his 11/22/63 report.  Taken to Capt. Fritz of the DPD on orders from Sheriff Decker.  Seven metal boxes, "containing pamphlets and literature from abroad" were turned over to Fritz per Sheriffs Deputy J L Oxford report as well .  Earlier in this thread the metal file boxes were discussed in some detail and I posted a picture I'd googled of 1963 portable a metal file box like this.

1963 small metal portable file box - Bing images

In relation to my first thought about 10,000 pages being a lot, in the box in this image I guessed they were about 8" wide.  Walthers called them 8 X 10 (8 1/2 X 11?), looking at the one in the picture and others it's not near as deep as it is wide, or tall (?).  I measured a ream of paper, 500 pages, 2".  Four reams or 8" worth would be 2000 pages, I. E. 5 boxes for 10,000 pages.  Even 10 " wide would equate to 4 boxes.  More than Ruth's 3.  

Reams of tightly wrapped new paper versus pages of written, folded to mail, then unfolded to read papers along with pamphlets and literature from abroad on thicker sock could have potentially filled up the 6 - 7 small file boxes.

Walthers also says Michael Paine told him of pages from these files "that's from the people he writes to in Russia".  

7 boxes from the garage, 3 boxes of records from Ruth's closet.  Music records, per Ruth at one point, 78's from the 50's would fit in the file boxes, not 12 1/2 X 12 1/2 LP albums though.  Either way, where would the 10,000 pages fit into the files?  Jim D said there was one file left when the boxes got to the WC.

Food for thought in the search for the Truth.   

Edited June 5, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/21/2020 at 1:27 AM, Max Good said:

Here is one of the original file cabinets.  It is in the possession of a collector in California who got it from Ruth in the last few years.  Note that it is labeled as CE 458 and CE 457-458 are footnoted with "These numbers were not used." in WC volume XVII.  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=7&tab=page

 

I never said Thanks Max.  As Jim notes, a Commission Exhibit not found in the Warren Commission Report. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

The Paines had 6 or 7 small portable metal file cabinets in their garage with information on Cuban sympathizers in some.  Confirmed in a DPD report.  Michael Paine told a DPD or Sherrif's Officer on 11/23/63 "These are the people he writes to".  The file cabinets were confiscated.  DPD tried to drop them off at the Sheriff's office, Decker refused.  They, all but one and all the contents disappeared.  It's in WC testimony (read the thread).

Poor, broke Lee didn't transport these from New Orleans to Dallas on the bus he told Ruth he took to get there - per her.  Nor did she when she picked up Marina in New Orleans on the way back from her convoluted trip to see her sister, of the CIA, in Virginia.

The proven existence of the files proves the Paine's were collecting information on Cuban sympathizers before they ever met the Oswald's.  Probably for the CIA.