Bob Dylan song about JFK assassination

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

With all his g'zillions of fans, if [Dylan] had spoken up early, worlds could have turned upside down.

Oh yeah, if Zimmy came out with a Murder Most Foul in the 1960's maybe HIS world could have turned upside down!  With Hoover and Cointelpro + LBJ & Operation Chaos Bobby may well have experienced the kind of hassle meted out to Lennon in the '70's & we know what happened there!

 

I agree.

[Pamela Brown]

23 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

How so Pamela? Virtually all of Dylan's fans probably already suspected a conspiracy, early on. As did more than half the public.

(Sorry to be contradictory, but I think you're being overly harsh on Dylan by considering him to be a part of the coverup.)

 

I wonder about that. If they were following Dylan they were not questioning the WCR because he didn't.

[Pamela Brown]

23 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Upon thinking on it a bit longer, I CAN see how terribly disappointed a fan would be that Dylan didn't speak/sing of this injustice early on.

 

Thank you.  He was considered something of a revolutionary, turning things upside down in the world of music.  

[Pete Mellor]

6 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

Thank you.  He was considered something of a revolutionary, turning things upside down in the world of music.  

but if my thought-dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine, but it's alright Ma, it's life an' life only. 

[Pamela Brown]

17 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

but if my thought-dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine, but it's alright Ma, it's life an' life only. 

That too...

[W. Niederhut]

I want to post a reference here about Bob Dylan.  Can't recall whether anyone mentioned this book in our previous discussions about Dylan, and I think it may be of interest to many of the scholars on this forum.

The book is Bob Dylan in America by Princeton Professor of American History Sean Wilentz.   Wilentz has written some award winning American history books, but strayed from his main areas of scholarship to write this book in 2010 as a labor of love.  As it turns out, his father owned a bookstore on McDougal Street in Greenwich Village in the 50s and 60s, and was a close friend of several people involved in the folk scene there.

I bought a copy of the book a few years ago, after reading Dylan's Chronicles, but never got around to reading it until this week-- probably because I was binge reading books about the JFK assassination, then 9/11.   It's a fascinating read.

https://www.amazon.com/Bob-Dylan-America-Sean-Wilentz-ebook/dp/B003F3PLTO/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Sean+Wilentz+Bob+Dylan&qid=1587944650&sr=8-1

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by W. Niederhut

[Pete Mellor]

Somewhere in my distant memory cells I think I read that around 64-65 Dylan travelled through the States in the back seat of a car driven by...maybe  Bob Neuwirth, and they made a stop in Dallas & visited Dealey Plaza.

[Ron Bulman]

5 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Somewhere in my distant memory cells I think I read that around 64-65 Dylan travelled through the States in the back seat of a car driven by...maybe  Bob Neuwirth, and they made a stop in Dallas & visited Dealey Plaza.

Someone else mentioned this earlier in this thread or on one of the other recent ones about Murder Most Foul.  Something about Dylan had been skeptical about the Lone Nut/W C conclusion.  That after the visit he became a "detective" regarding the case, seeking more information. 

[David Lifton]

On 4/11/2020 at 2:03 PM, James DiEugenio said:

LOL 😀

 

Lifton was too insightful Ron.  He even knew Cranor wanted to do a Hitchcock cameo.  I told her not too.  It would give the whole game away.

Yes, Jim. . . I'm so glad you recognize that I was "insightful." Before you ever got involved in the JFK assassination, and at a time when I was UCLA grad student, I recognized that the President's body was "best evidence" ; Further, that if the autopsy was falsified, that would explain how the Warren Commission --not to mention the FBI -- could be misled.  Then came the discovery what when the President's body was removed from the Dallas casket,  the two FBI agents reported that it was "apparent" that there had [already] been "surgery of the head area, namely, in the top of the skull."  Then came additional discoveries that established that, based on anatomic description it was clear that the President's head wound(s) had been altered sometime after the body left Parkland Hospital, in Dallas, and the time it arrived at Bethesda.  All of this was laid out in UCLA Law Professor Wesley Liebeler's memo (November 1966)  to Chief Justice Earl Warren--and all the other members of the Warren Commission, plus RFK, plus LBJ--that there was evidence in the record-- that was never addressed--that JFK's body (i.e., his wounds) had been altered prior to autopsy.  And that, of course, is the focus on Best Evidence, which casts doubt on the legitimacy of Johnson's accession to the Oval Office.  So tell me, Jim. . Is there anything you ever did, in real time, that compares with the potential importance of this discovery?   What do you think is more important, Jimmy. . .the fact that Clay Shaw may have made some arguable remark about JFK, or the indisputable fact that JFK's body was altered, and the attendant falsification of the basic medico-legal facts about JFK's assassination?    Oliver Stone is a smart guy, with a global view, and someone who understands the removal of JFK from office, in Shakespearian terms. I do hope that whatever he is working on now reflects that wider view, and the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam War, and not a misplaced focus on Clay Shaw.

[Cory Santos]

1 hour ago, David Lifton said:

Yes, Jim. . . I'm so glad you recognize that I was "insightful." Before you ever got involved in the JFK assassination, and at a time when I was UCLA grad student, I recognized that the President's body was "best evidence" ; Further, that if the autopsy was falsified, that would explain how the Warren Commission --not to mention the FBI -- could be misled.  Then came the discovery what when the President's body was removed from the Dallas casket,  the two FBI agents reported that it was "apparent" that there had [already] been "surgery of the head area, namely, in the top of the skull."  Then came additional discoveries that established that, based on anatomic description it was clear that the President's head wound(s) had been altered sometime after the body left Parkland Hospital, in Dallas, and the time it arrived at Bethesda.  All of this was laid out in UCLA Law Professor Wesley Liebeler's memo (November 1966)  to Chief Justice Earl Warren--and all the other members of the Warren Commission, plus RFK, plus LBJ--that there was evidence in the record-- that was never addressed--that JFK's body (i.e., his wounds) had been altered prior to autopsy.  And that, of course, is the focus on Best Evidence, which casts doubt on the legitimacy of Johnson's accession to the Oval Office.  So tell me, Jim. . Is there anything you ever did, in real time, that compares with the potential importance of this discovery?   What do you think is more important, Jimmy. . .the fact that Clay Shaw may have made some arguable remark about JFK, or the indisputable fact that JFK's body was altered, and the attendant falsification of the basic medico-legal facts about JFK's assassination?    Oliver Stone is a smart guy, with a global view, and someone who understands the removal of JFK from office, in Shakespearian terms. I do hope that whatever he is working on now reflects that wider view, and the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam War, and not a misplaced focus on Clay Shaw.

David, where is the alleged surgeon general's report discussing the frontal shot.  Did it ever really exist?  When did you become aware of it?  What actions did you to take after learning of it?   Thank you.

[Dennis Berube]

3 hours ago, David Lifton said:

So tell me, Jim. . Is there anything you ever did, in real time, that compares with the potential importance of this discovery?   What do you think is more important, Jimmy. . .the fact that Clay Shaw may have made some arguable remark about JFK, or the indisputable fact that JFK's body was altered, and the attendant falsification of the basic medico-legal facts about JFK's assassination?    Oliver Stone is a smart guy, with a global view, and someone who understands the removal of JFK from office, in Shakespearian terms. I do hope that whatever he is working on now reflects that wider view, and the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam War, and not a misplaced focus on Clay Shaw.

Nice strawman there David. It completely neglects so much I have to wonder if your ignorant or purposefully wasting our time. Garrison and Stone, more than anyone, are responsible for presenting the "wider view" to the public. Garrison in particular is worthy of unending praise, the case would be nowhere without him. Fingering Clay Shaw 3-4 years after the hit is even more amazing today with all we know. The fact you discount this in comparison to your estimation of your own work's importance is telling. A 1960's trial of a planner or cut-out to the planners of the assassination isn't as important as your alteration theory in 1980?

Jim DiEugenio's work on JFK's foreign policies and how they were changed is some of the most important work on this case as it really destroys the biggest argument for the MSM to control a "neutral" viewer, mainly that nothing changed between JFK and LBJ and therefore no motive for a "deep state" kill. Not all of it is his work either, but he isn't pushing a lifetime pet project, but he's collating and adding the best information in the case without a preconceived destination, to our benefit. Not to mention his excellent critical reviews of good and bad and his Garrison work...

Compare that to a theory that the President's body was altered. Even if that is true (being nice here), it pales in historical importance to the above mentioned items. It certainly did not "casts doubt on the legitimacy of Johnson's accession to the Oval Office". That was done by Garrison long before 1980 and its overly self-indulgent to even say that. I'm sorry David, but when autopsy photos have been staged and so much other medical evidence has been proven questionable, what difference does it make if Allen Dulles himself altered JFK's body at this point in history? It was a covert operation and they did whatever they had to in terms of the technical side of things. Interesting? Maybe to some. Important in 2020? Hardly. Divisive and pushed by someone who lashes out whenever questioned? Harmful to the "movement" at best.

[Pamela Brown]

On 4/21/2020 at 7:40 AM, Pete Mellor said:

With all his g'zillions of fans, if [Dylan] had spoken up early, worlds could have turned upside down.

Oh yeah, if Zimmy came out with a Murder Most Foul in the 1960's maybe HIS world could have turned upside down!  With Hoover and Cointelpro + LBJ & Operation Chaos Bobby may well have experienced the kind of hassle meted out to Lennon in the '70's & we know what happened there!

 

But Dylan says he is comfortable in chaos.  Surely it would have been a small price to pay for getting the truth out...

[W. Niederhut]

40 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

But Dylan says he is comfortable in chaos.  Surely it would have been a small price to pay for getting the truth out...

But, Pamela, let's not forget that a lot of the truth about JFK's murder has come out only during the past 30 years-- especially for the general public.

And a great deal of the truth has been obscured, for decades, by journalists and writers promoted by the Mockingbird M$M.

As for Dylan's initial response to JFK's murder, Sean Wilentz mentions the initial draft of Chimes of Freedom in Bob Dylan in America, written, coincidentally, around the time that Dylan first met and befriended Allen Ginsburg in Greenwich Village, in December of 1963.

Someone half-jokingly referred to that meeting as, "the day the Beat Generation ended."

Edited April 29, 2020 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

I have to note, the article I wrote on this is still going through the roof. 

In fact, its at its highest rating since its been on. By far and away the highest rated article ever at K and K.

Dylan hit it out of the park. 

[Pamela Brown]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:56 PM, W. Niederhut said:

But, Pamela, let's not forget that a lot of the truth about JFK's murder has come out only during the past 30 years-- especially for the general public.

And a great deal of the truth has been obscured, for decades, by journalists and writers promoted by the Mockingbird M$M.

As for Dylan's initial response to JFK's murder, Sean Wilentz mentions the initial draft of Chimes of Freedom in Bob Dylan in America, written, coincidentally, around the time that Dylan first met and befriended Allen Ginsburg in Greenwich Village, in December of 1963.

Someone half-jokingly referred to that meeting as, "the day the Beat Generation ended."

Dylan was in NYC after the assassination, as was I.  There was a lot of information available.  I even saw one of the Zapruder films in 1964.  Mark Lane was there and everybody had questions. Dylan also had A.J.Weberman going through his garbage, so he had access to a lot of CT ideas.

I'm not giving Dylan a free pass on this. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Pamela Brown