Cliff Varnell Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: Canada and the European countries have neutral standalone election commissions in charge of free and fair voting, which work almost flawlessly tabulating results along with precise voter registration systems which are updated ahead of elections. A common feature is paper ballots. It is unbelievable that the United States has such a messy system, prone to political influence. Particularly after the 2000 election. Jeff, would it kill you to do a little research before you start spouting Trump talking points? Voting methods and equipment by state https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state Ballot-marking devices and systems (BMDs): A BMD "allows for the electronic presentation of a ballot, electronic selection of valid contest options, and the production of a human-readable paper ballot, but does not make any other lasting record of the voter’s selections." Initially used primarily to accommodate voters with disabilities, BMDs are used by all voters in some locations.[1] </q> The 2020 American election was a model of “a free and fair election.” Trump is launching a blizzard of frivolous lawsuits to make for “messy” optics which the Trumper-sympathetic gullible buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Hey Bob, you're the guy with the most experience about the criminal justice system. It was suggested here that Biden should take the role of Gerald Ford and pardon Trump for agreeing to never run in the future, I remember also a request to pardon him upon leaving the country. I don't dismiss these out of hand. Now we're faced with the problem.. What will the government do?, How vigorous will they be in prosecuting Trump's crimes and what will be his cults response.? There's no ignoring he got over 70 million votes. Though I suspect there are many levels of identification with Trump, from the 1) cult with no means to even judge if Trump's performance was even in their interest, but was their sounding board at striking out at liberals,"multi cultural America"; experts, scientists and the MSM, and 2) mainstream Republicans who think that Trump tax cuts and deregulative, pro business policies were the perfect storm needed for their pocket books and 3) just some conservative, perhaps religious people in the middle of the country who just couldn't vote for Democrats. Of course it remains to be seen what Trump might still do. It sounds like Biden and Adam Schiff in public seem to softening about prosecution.Then yesterday I hear the opposite. Obviously the country will be watching intently and should Trump somehow be exonerated, that would be another feather in his cap with his cult following in successfully battling the oppressive 'deep state" and help what aspirations he may have in 2024. So what do you think Bob? Will it be a vigorous prosecution? or anyone Really hard to say Kirk. I think they will stay entirely hands off and leave it to the DoJ and AG to determine what to do. It's possible the new AG will stay hands off to keep from making it look anything close to political. The problem is that if they leave any illegal/unconstitutional actions (or outside the norms) on the table unchallenged the risk will always be that he or someone who actually knows what they're doing can come back and create real problems. This time I believe the "deep state" (or bureaucrats as I've said before - maybe third rail is a better term) have managed to keep the worst of it somewhat in check but he's left a playbook of sorts of how to challenge democracy and undermine the rule of law (ignore subpoenas, dangle and issue pardons for silence, use DoJ for vendettas etc). I'm sure several USAs will be looking at the various existing cases and try to determine what if anything needs to be addressed. The cases involving Stone, Manafort, Flynn and any other potential co-conspirators whom the President engaged in Mutual Defense Agreements with and coordinated testimony in exchange for clemency will be difficult in one sense but self evident in another. The plenary power of the President in regards to pardons is not necessarily uncheckable - can a President really engage in sedition such as the current voting joke and pardon his way out of charges? I doubt it. If they find that Trump has engaged in illegal conduct (known now or yet to be discovered) I expect they'll do something. Vigorous prosecutions will probably be left to the states but if the political winds blow in the direction of prosecution then anything is possible. I doubt he'll be left with a political life after he's done with this scam and the marks wake up to see how he lifted their wallets with this voting fraud gag. Don't sell the Republicans too short. His base is diminishing and there are Republicans who can primary him and probably end his candidacy such as Sasse, while he's swimming in excrement. I for one believe there are very few who haven't completely sold out to him and hopefully those people will pay a political price. I would have painted every one of them Orange during his term so they could be inextricably linked to Trump post presidency. There is no strategic downside for the dems if they had done that. Maybe they still can but I would have had Graham, Cruz et al answering for that chump to the enth degree. You know if the winds change they claim they were against him the entire time. To make it clear; although I do have experience in law firms and in the Justice system I'm not a lawyer. Disclaimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: Consider Georgia a Trump win You mean like soldiers? Imagine that! Hahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: This was from the Pennsylvania hearing the other day. If you are going to reflexively call BS as usual, you should watch the hours of testimony by the witnesses that saw the fraud take place. Just so you get it, anyone who wants to call the witness testimony "fake", without actually watching the witness testimony, is a disingenuous hack by default. I'm not calling anyone here stupid. I don't think many of you are. In fact, most of you seem pretty smart. Nevertheless, there are worse things than being a little dim-witted. Listen for to the gasps from the crowd when the Army Col. speaks. This was not a hearing hahaha! PR stunt! Under what auspices was it a hearing? You're hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Repeat: The 2020American election was a model of “Free and Fair Election”. The courts have verified this fact. So have all recounts. GOP ripped for ‘bad faith and cynicism’ after Trump’s effort to overturn the election loses — again — in court https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/gop-ripped-for-bad-faith-and-cynicism-after-trumps-effort-to-overturn-the-election-loses-again-in-court/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: Consider Georgia a Trump win According to a local Atlanta TV station source, 18,008 military/overseas ballots have been accepted in Georgia. He stated that there were another 8,410 possibly "still available to be received" as of Nov. 6th (the deadline for acceptance). Assuming all these military/civilian employees filed changes of address as being temporarily away. but still residents of GA, now what you have is ALL votes certified with 6,107 citizen soldiers who chose not to return their ballots or they did not arrive on time and cannot be counted. That is not even considering that some of those that moved, were NOT soldiers, but were simply relocated temporarily due to their jobs and other reasons and were/are still permanent residents of GA. As you know (I'm sure), just because you move temporarily, it doesn't mean you give up your residency or right to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Mr. Wheeler is representative of Tump’s followers. He will not accept Trump losing, and will grasp at any straw thrown his way. Too many neutral judges in too many states have ruled against Trump’s lawyers for their to be any truth to the conspiracies to defraud that Mr. Wheeler keeps throwing our way. It worries me that he won’t do an about face, and I would feel reassured if he would do so because I view him as a litmus test. Can any intelligent Trump supporters accept the plain facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) No state's going back on their announcement. The embarrassment would be too great. Plus the potential loss of jobs or public office. Trump will have to hope to subvert the Electors, and he can't do that in every district, or in enough states. Here's the Powerball game map. He might as well try to subvert that and bolster his legal fees pot: Edited November 29, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bob Ness said: Really hard to say Kirk. I think they will stay entirely hands off and leave it to the DoJ and AG to determine what to do. It's possible the new AG will stay hands off to keep from making it look anything close to political. The problem is that if they leave any illegal/unconstitutional actions (or outside the norms) on the table unchallenged the risk will always be that he or someone who actually knows what they're doing can come back and create real problems. This time I believe the "deep state" (or bureaucrats as I've said before - maybe third rail is a better term) have managed to keep the worst of it somewhat in check but he's left a playbook of sorts of how to challenge democracy and undermine the rule of law (ignore subpoenas, dangle and issue pardons for silence, use DoJ for vendettas etc). I'm sure several USAs will be looking at the various existing cases and try to determine what if anything needs to be addressed. The cases involving Stone, Manafort, Flynn and any other potential co-conspirators whom the President engaged in Mutual Defense Agreements with and coordinated testimony in exchange for clemency will be difficult in one sense but self evident in another. The plenary power of the President in regards to pardons is not necessarily uncheckable - can a President really engage in sedition such as the current voting joke and pardon his way out of charges? I doubt it. If they find that Trump has engaged in illegal conduct (known now or yet to be discovered) I expect they'll do something. Vigorous prosecutions will probably be left to the states but if the political winds blow in the direction of prosecution then anything is possible. I doubt he'll be left with a political life after he's done with this scam and the marks wake up to see how he lifted their wallets with this voting fraud gag. Don't sell the Republicans too short. His base is diminishing and there are Republicans who can primary him and probably end his candidacy such as Sasse, while he's swimming in excrement. I for one believe there are very few who haven't completely sold out to him and hopefully those people will pay a political price. I would have painted every one of them Orange during his term so they could be inextricably linked to Trump post presidency. There is no strategic downside for the dems if they had done that. Maybe they still can but I would have had Graham, Cruz et al answering for that chump to the enth degree. You know if the winds change they claim they were against him the entire time. To make it clear; although I do have experience in law firms and in the Justice system I'm not a lawyer. Disclaimer. As much as I would hope I'm wrong. I don't think Trump does a minute of jail time. I personally don't fear much the resistance of the Trump base,even in some of it's more hideous forms. But it's obviously not a good thing for a powerful nation to suppress a minority. I think that's where Biden is at. He knows he could do a lot to heal the wounds but he really needs money for programs of retraining, loans to get businesses back on track and a public works program restoring the infra structure. But if Mitch Mc Connell is still in control (which I suspect he will be) nothing on that scale is going to happen. Edited November 29, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Does Donald Trump want war badly enough that he would assassinate an Israeli leader in order to falsely blame it on Iran? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer sat on a wall Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer had a great fall All the King’s horses And All the King’s men Couldn’t put Humpty Dumpy Trunpy golfer Back together again Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer wants to bend reality to his will. Sorry Mr. Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer, but you lost. No matter how many Sharpie pens you use to draw on that hurricane map. It didn’t work then And it sure as heck won’t work now. Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer will go down in the history books as a one-term, impeached loser. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Burrows Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) On 11/29/2020 at 7:54 AM, Steve Thomas said: Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer sat on a wall Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer had a great fall All the King’s horses And All the King’s men Couldn’t put Humpty Dumpy Trunpy golfer Back together again Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer wants to bend reality to his will. Sorry Mr. Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer, but you lost. No matter how many Sharpie pens you use to draw on that hurricane map. It didn’t work then And it sure as heck won’t work now. Humpty Dumpy Trumpy golfer will go down in the history books as a one-term, impeached loser. Steve Thomas 🤔🤣 Thanks for the laugh, and for the inspiration... Humpty Trumpty sat on a wall Humpty Trumpty had a great fall All Rupert's horses And all Rupert's men Couldn’t put Trumpty together again Edited May 2, 2021 by Robert Burrows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Donald Trump is now suggesting the FBI, the Justice Department and judges are involved. I tell you what. If he starts running around crying out, "Off with their heads!", I'm outta here. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) At what point do rational people ( even Trump voters) realize the truly extreme irrationality mind-set and actions of Trump in denying the reality that this 2020 Presidential election is over and was not rigged? Believing the election was rigged (despite hugely overwhelming documented proof that it wasn't ) is "one level" of irrational thinking. Taking this belief beyond simple thinking to a level of super aggressive actionable efforts of multi-state legal filings, law suits and other legal team wranglings, pressuring even Republican party state officials to pursue this unprovable agenda, speeches to the nation in press briefings where Trump continually still says he won the election and demanding hearings as high as the Supreme Courts is irrational to another, truly pathological and delusional degree. This aggressive, disturbing and sad denial of reality action reminds me of old newsreel clips of Hitler going off into fits of fist shaking, twisted red faced, spittle spewing rage at his generals when they were telling him they were losing the war and must begin to accept that fact and plan for some type of concessions of surrender. Ve have new weapons that will turn the war! Enlist two million of our pre-teen boys! They have the will to keep fighting unlike you cowards! Go get that defeatest coward Rommel and let him choose his choice of elimination! I wonder if more and more of Trump's staff have reached the defeat acceptance reality mind set, yet are too afraid to say anything more about it to avoid the Denier In Chief's firing wrath. This super aggressive and expensive post election denial of reality election effort by our president is ... well ... madness. And it's so unneccessarily further damaging and stressing our already covid damaged, stressed and exhausted country even more. Now that is tragic. I would hope that our national media in complete and timed unison will soon acknowledge this sad irrational Trump denial of reality campaign in it's true nation stressing and damaging context and uniformally report and condemn it in front page outrage headline ways. Edited November 29, 2020 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 40 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said: What would you call it when a bunch of legislators sit on a dais and "hear" the testimony of other people? You didn't answer the question. Under what auspices? Me and Neiderhut could have a hearing too and it would be just as meaningless. I'm really stunned you fall for this crap from Guiliani and Ellis. They're clowns and anyone with any cred is gone. Keep sending them money though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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