The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[David Andrews]

Is there an end to this guy?  It's like in the 1960s, when Esquire magazine would print a pic of Dick Nixon every few issues, captioned, "Why is this man laughing?"  Of course, Nixon got comeback mileage out of that...

Trump: US should put Chinese flags on F-22 jets and ‘bomb dooky out of’ Russia

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese

[Kirk Gallaway]

First off, I love movies, but I'm not a movie reviewer.  I saw "Winter on fire" on Netflix about the Ukraine uprising in 2014. I'm not sure if the title was made in response to Stone's "Ukraine on Fire" but I expect this  movie would incite Oliver Stone to cry "propaganda" but isn't that the "goose being too good for the ganda"?, or how does that saying go?    heh heh

 

Winter on Fire is a co production of Ukraine, the U.S. and the U.K..  It is definitely more human based  and entertaining then Stones "Ukraine on fire".  "Ukraine on fire" is more ideological and delves into  old pre war Ukranian historical past affiliations, and nationalist figures and pushes a much more hardcore ideological point of view, and  sort of cries "fascist.". So  they're completely different documentaries about the same event.

 

This shows an the ground progression of a movement of diverse groups of  people coming together starting with simpler protests and then being escalated by increasingly restrictive laws and increased police brutality ( by the Berkut), until it becomes a live war in the streets. It's told from a cross section of the protestors lives..

 

A criticism  could be made that perhaps the uprising is too populist. They are patriotic and they seemed to be united by a theme that they want to be free to break away from their long chains of association to Russia, and adapt more western ways.

You could always make a case that a film maker could choose certain targeted people to spin a narrative to their advantage. And you can't just  let a movie make you decide how you think about a given world event. But unless you've bought the kool aid that no country has a hope of free will and are just pawns at the passing glance, of Obama and the U.S.'s  drive to world hegemony, this is a pretty powerful flick.

 

[W. Niederhut]

14 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I look at it differently. It’s meeting guns with loving kindness. It’s not a welcome we love you what took you so long mat. It’s welcome to a new idea, and it’s aimed not at Putin but at the Russian people, and the soldiers who probably don’t want to be there. 

Paul,

     I concluded back in 2007 that the Russian Federation had devolved into a nationalist/fascist police state, after Putin and his FSB seized our ROCOR in Western Europe and North America.  At the time, I heard ROCOR sermons that sounded a lot like Mussolini diatribes, except that they were spoken in Russian.  Something was terribly wrong with the picture.  Alexander Dugin's influence on Putin and his fellow Russian fascists explains a great deal.*

    So, I don't think it's far-fetched to compare what Putin is doing in Ukraine to what Hitler did in Yugoslavia, Poland, and Russia.  (Fiona Hill has also used the Hitler analogy.)   Conversely, there were a number of European nations and regions that simply laid down their arms and let the N-a-z-i police state occupy them (e.g., Austria, Sudetenland, Denmark, Norway, etc.)  But what were the consequences?

    True, those who promptly surrendered to Hitler saved their buildings, (unlike Warsaw or Belgrade) but what happened to their citizens?  Many (Jews, Roma, socialists, etc.) were promptly rounded up and sent to concentration camps.

    I believe that the same thing will happen in Russian-occupied Ukraine to those opposed to Putin's fascist police state.  Putin will establish a Stalinist reign of terror.  He has already done the same thing in the RF-- murdering journalists and sending opposition politicians like Navalny to the Gulag.

  *   https://www.rawstory.com/this-dark-and-disturbing-figure-is-advising-putin-s-inner-circle/

Edited March 7, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Steve Thomas]

- Robert Regan, a Republican candidate for the Michigan House of Representatives -

 

"Having three daughters, I tell my daughters, 'if rape is inevitable, you should just lay back and enjoy it,'" he said.

Two years ago, one of Regan's daughters publicly discouraged people from supporting her father during a different bid to win political office.

"If you're in Michigan and 18+ please for the love of god do not vote for my dad," she wrote on Twitter at the time. "Tell everyone."

https://www.rawstory.com/robert-regan-michigan/

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

Deleted

Steve Thomas

Edited March 7, 2022 by Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

I know War is Hell.  But watching the indiscriminate murder is hearbreaking.

Russian attacks kill civilians fleeing Ukraine (msn.com)

[Matt Allison]

To me, announcing this in the New York Times definitely feels like a giant middle finger to Putin. I sense there is some re-calculation on the table.

 Arming Ukraine: 17,000 Anti-Tank Weapons in 6 Days and a Clandestine Cybercorps

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/us/politics/us-ukraine-weapons.html

[W. Niederhut]

Since I've been obsessed with the subject of Stalin, Putin, and Soviet and Ukrainian history this week, I've stumbled upon another good history article, to add to those that I have already referenced by Fiona Hill and Robert Service. This one is from the Smithsonian Magazine.*

IMO, part of the problem in accurately perceiving Putin that many in the U.S. M$M are struggling with-- including Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Tucker Carlson, et.al.-- is rooted in a general denial of the historic crimes of Stalinism.

Because of the well-known crimes and horrors of N-a-z-i-ism, and the Red Army's heroic role in defeating the Wehrmacht in WWII, many in the West have tended to deny or overlook the horrors and abominations of Stalinism-- of the Gulag, the mass murders, and systematized torture tactics of Beria's Cheka/NKVD/KGB.  It began after 1917-- almost a quarter century before WWII.

IMO, Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick were so focused on exposing the "untold" crimes of the U.S. military-industrial complex in their Untold History series, that they tended to minimize the historic crimes of Stalinism.

And, of course, Stalin assiduously hid his crimes against humanity from the West. 

So, it's difficult for many modern liberals (and some conservatives) to understand why, for example, many Ukrainians wanted to see Stalin's communist, terror state collapse during WWII.  It was a dreadful police state.

Eastern Europeans, likewise dreaded the arrival of the Red Army in their countries at the end of WWII.  Pillaging and rape of women by the Red Army was the norm in Eastern Europe in 1945-- and Milovan Djilas almost ended up in the Gulag for protesting about it to Stalin.  (Stalin had no objection to the rapine.)

* The 20th-Century History Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression. Now, Russia is using that chapter to paint Ukraine as a poopoo nation

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-20th-century-history-behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Edited March 8, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

9 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

To me, announcing this in the New York Times definitely feels like a giant middle finger to Putin. I sense there is some re-calculation on the table.

 Arming Ukraine: 17,000 Anti-Tank Weapons in 6 Days and a Clandestine Cybercorps

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/us/politics/us-ukraine-weapons.html

Would love to read this Matt.  I'd like to give Putin more than a middle finger.  But I don't want to create an account to read one article with a rag that did at the time and still covers up the JFKA and more.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Since I've been obsessed with the subject of Stalin, Putin, and Soviet and Ukrainian history this week, I've stumbled upon another good history article, to add to those that I have already referenced by Fiona Hill and Robert Service. This one is from the Smithsonian Magazine.*

IMO, part of the the problem in accurately perceiving Putin that many in the U.S. M$M are struggling with-- including Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Tucker Carlson, et.al.-- is rooted in a general denial of the historic crimes of Stalinism.

Because of the well-known crimes and horrors of N-a-z-i-ism, and the Red Army's heroic role in defeating the Wehrmacht in WWII, many in the West have tended to deny or overlook the horrors and abominations of Stalinism-- of the Gulag, the mass murders, and systematized torture tactics of Beria's Cheka/NKVD/KGB.  It began after 1917-- a quarter century before WWII.

IMO, Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick were so focused on exposing the "untold" crimes of the U.S. military-industrial complex in their Untold History series, that they tended to minimize the historic crimes of Stalinism.

And, of course, Stalin assiduously hid his crimes against humanity from the West. 

So, it's difficult for many modern liberals (and some conservatives) to understand why, for example, many Ukrainians wanted to see Stalin's communist, terror state collapse during WWII.  It was a dreadful police state.

Eastern Europeans, likewise dreaded the arrival of the Red Army in their countries at the end of WWII.  Pillaging and rape of women by the Red Army was the norm in Eastern Europe in 1945-- and Milovan Djilas almost ended up in the Gulag for protesting about it to Stalin.  (Stalin had no objection to the rapine.)

* The 20th-Century History Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression. Now, Russia is using that chapter to paint Ukraine as a poopoo nation

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-20th-century-history-behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

W-

I have no trouble calling Putin a thug, and Stalin even worse. 

When people drink the ideological or partisan kool-aid...they tend to go blind. 

This is no way absolves the US global security state of various misdeeds. 

BTW, Xi, in some regards, makes Putin look like Peter Pan. 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Good quote by Solzhenitsyn about the difference between superficial punditry and discernment.

[Paul Brancato]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

     I concluded back in 2007 that the Russian Federation had devolved into a nationalist/fascist police state, after Putin and his FSB seized our ROCOR in Western Europe and North America.  At the time, I heard ROCOR sermons that sounded a lot like Mussolini diatribes, except that they were spoken in Russian.  Something was terribly wrong with the picture.  Alexander Dugin's influence on Putin and his fellow Russian fascists explains a great deal.*

    So, I don't think it's far-fetched to compare what Putin is doing in Ukraine to what Hitler did in Yugoslavia, Poland, and Russia.  (Fiona Hill has also used the Hitler analogy.)   Conversely, there were a number of European nations and regions that simply laid down their arms and let the N-a-z-i police state occupy them (e.g., Austria, Sudetenland, Denmark, Norway, etc.)  But what were the consequences?

    True, those who promptly surrendered to Hitler saved their buildings, (unlike Warsaw or Belgrade) but what happened to their citizens?  Many (Jews, Roma, socialists, etc.) were promptly rounded up and sent to concentration camps.

    I believe that the same thing will happen in Russian-occupied Ukraine to those opposed to Putin's fascist police state.  Putin will establish a Stalinist reign of terror.  He has already done the same thing in the RF-- murdering journalists and sending opposition politicians like Navalny to the Gulag.

  *   https://www.rawstory.com/this-dark-and-disturbing-figure-is-advising-putin-s-inner-circle/

I’ve been digging into Putin and others in his government these past few weeks. NYT had an interesting article today on far rightists from other countries joining the Azov brigade in S Eastern Ukraine on the Azov sea. It’s seems that this is a disputed area, and the small portion of Ukraine’s National Guard that is fascist has been battling pro Russian separatists for years, something we hear little about. After a long story on NPR yesterday about Putin’s dog whistles to antisemites I found this article enlightening. Did you read it? 

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W-

I have no trouble calling Putin a thug, and Stalin even worse. 

When people drink the ideological or partisan kool-aid...they tend to go blind. 

This is no way absolves the US global security state of various misdeeds. 

BTW, Xi, in some regards, makes Putin look like Peter Pan. 

 

Thug?  So he hasn't graduated yet to mass murder/ war criminal yet? "Thug" is Roger Stone.

It always does get back to the wicked U.S. deep state with their x-ray eyes that  force all their adversaries to make stupid mistakes with just a passing glance, which is reinforced by Aaron Mate in this interview.

 

Ben you've stated many times here on the forum that your big 3 journalists were Glen Greeneald, Matt Taibbi and Aaron Mate. This is  perhaps the most heralded triumvirate of journalistic sources I've seen here on the forum. Curiously all 3 of these guys are pro Putin apologists, even though you're not. I applaud you for your devotion I guess, but isn't it time to break away and get some new idols? I understand putting all your eggs in one basket, you find yourself in somewhat of orphan situation, much like fellow Californian Devan Nunes.

.

 I wouldn't mention this but I think these guys have done a horrible disservice to us. Thank God Matt Taibbi has admitted he made a mistake  to his credit, and now we've found out Glen Greenwald was at first in favor of Bush's War in Iraq, a corporate lawyer for Goldman Sachs, who was in favor of Citizen's United and took money from the Koch's for starters. I've never found you to tune in much to your audience Ben, but that is about as poison a combo of affiliations as you can get here!

Then we ran the obligatory appropriately short, "low hanging fruit" video bashing of Tucker Carlson, Mike Pompeo and of course Trump. 

Now, as promised  in my final installment  we'll go after Aaron Mate, and coincidentally I was just sent this clip from a member of my family which gave me a sort of divine mission in posting this and completing the series. A shout out to my family without whose support I might not have finished this series.                             heh heh

*****

 

Mate use to be the cool, calm and collected one. Now he's starting to look more unglued, like Glenn Greenwald. Mate begins this segment with washed up L.A.comedian now political podcaster Jimmy Dore in this Feb. 26 interview starting around 11:00. Mate asserts Russia should have just cutoff oil to Europe in retaliation , but they were forced to invade Ukraine by Fascist Biden who won't make the Zelensky follow the Minsk accords, and besides has no legal right to sanction anyway.

 

Mate, "We've had nonstop expansion of Nato". Yes in the last 13 years, they've admitted one country in 13 years and 4 little countries this century.Mate says this is all a ploy by the U.S. to take care of Europe's oil needs. Biden was using the threat of supplying Europe with LNG as a deterrent against Russian invasion. Ok, that's what I might expect, but it's only one aspect of the whole thing, and it didn't end deterring them. And this is the most credible this gets.. But it goes downhill from there.

 

Mate says the Russians aren't like the U.S. and don't indiscriminately bomb civilian targets! Oh really Aaron?, What is he saying now a week later? He completely bought the Putin Kool Aid, " I trust him, He's a great guy!."

 

Mate whines  that the US "doesn't really care" and puts down the U.S. for not invading Ukraine, and escalating this conflict to WWlll? Is he crazy? Also given the fact that the U.S. would be violating the Nato charter by invading and are abstaining. So can you see Mate is just being a silly bitch and nothing will make him happy. He could have at least said, " I'm glad the U.S. doesn't invade."

 

But who is the country who invaded a sovereign nation?? Mate says it is the U.S!! Or the U.S. made it happen and why?  No real reason, only because the U.S. has to have some country to kick around? Under what possible logic? What a doubling down spin that is. That's because his career as an online bser has lost credibility and is going down the tubes. Now he'll just be a "fringey " guy.

In the cable he cited from wikileaks,  he said one of our diplomats William Byrnes said there could be a war if the U.S. admits Ukraine to Nato, (39:26- 39:44) then he says around 39:44, "that's exactly what's happened".  That's not what's happened. Ukraine wasn't admitted into Nato, and probably never would have been! But Russia didn't care, and invaded anyway! That was no bomb shell. There were several people who warned Russia could get angry.

 

The U.S. did not overthrow Ukraine in 2014, and for Mate to casually pass it off by saying Obama knows that is a lie. He can't substantiate it. It's true Yanukovych was an oligarch who was run out of government to leave a huge estate and found to be pilfering his mother country for billions only to later be given a platform in exile with an interview by Oliver Stone.

 

Mate seems to have embraced  Putin's claim to" denazify" Ukraine, but it is  BS. Do you know Zelensky's a Jew? He won election with 82% of the vote! Some ethnic cleansing has gone on in East and Central Europe for centuries, and of course West Europe and the Nazis.

In a week, Mate has been completely discredited.
All those guys, Mate, Greenwald, Stone, have been scrambling because at first they said their pal Putin would never invade, then only invade in the Donbass region, and now they are talking out of both sides of their mouths  trying to rationalize a full scale invasion at great loss of life and displacement. What other excuse can they make than if you knew the real truth, like they do, they had no choice, the U.S. made them do it.

 

Isn't it interesting, that a confluence of events occur where you can see all the accumulated flaws in people's thinking come cascading down.  I think the Trump election and the conspiracy mania it brought further exacerbated a view that the U.S. "government deep state" was behind all the evils of the world. All these researchers, some of whom had  done good work were so preoccupied by the government deep state, they ignored the wholesale abuse of the law by Trump to defend him and then ignored all the evidence against  Putin because in their paranoid delusions. They thought it just  another government deep state media conspiracy.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Matt Allison]

Going back a number of years, Roger Stone is likely the one responsible for pilfering the term "Deep State" and re-purposing it for fascist purposes inside the United States.

I think it's important to remember that horseshoe theory is never more obvious than when comparing communist dictatorships and fascist dictatorships. Any semantical differences between the two are usually just used to propagandize and confuse those of lesser intellect.

[Ron Bulman]

Amen.

Thank God Donald Trump isn't president right now (msn.com)