Kirk Gallaway Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Bob Ness said: Sorry for the delay in responding. The hearings have a purpose because they can illustrate and reveal what happened so that citizens can judge the circumstances and engage in their civic responsibilities. Those responsibilities include writing their congressional representatives, voting, testifying where appropriate, providing evidence, and in general fulfill our obligation to stay engaged through greater understanding. This engagement encourages a healthy society and a better functioning government. What we actually have today is a significant percentage of the population who has replaced civic understanding with ignorance which was on display on January 6th. This isn't a "biased opinion" I have but in fact played out spectacularly and has many exemplars throughout history to compare to. The sociopath/pyschopath Trump, to this very day, has claimed through outright and easily provable lies (which take advantage of the ignorance of his followers) that the election was stolen. He has been claiming that for years before the election and I think he even claimed the same thing with HRC. His followers, like any person who has been badly conned, have doubled down on the original scam rather than admit they were wrong, learn from it, and move along. Trump and his circle (Flynn, Rudy, Stone, Hannity, Powell, Tucker etc) figured out a long time ago that these simple people would be vulnerable to a scam and use the soap box they have to rake money in over the transom. Their Republican counterparts such as Greene, DeSantis and so on ring the same bell as often as possible. Riling people up to take a fork to their wallets is common and the Republicans have been building the audience for at least a few decades. It's the primary reason they've attacked journalism, academics, and the "liberal elite". It's imperative for them to lower the understanding of their base by attacking those institutions, disqualifying them as viable sources of information and directing the sheep to contoured, tailored and limited information. I've been saying here for years now that Trump is a two-bit con man that Republicans saw fit to hire as a President of the United States. At the time he had more experience to qualify him to fly a 777 than be POTUS. That was true. Nobody in their right mind would board an airplane with him as a pilot. They shouldn't have selected Trump as their candidate. It was stupid and extremely dangerous. That fact alone proves my point. Whew!That was very eloquent, Bob! Bob: I's imperative for them to lower the understanding of their base by attacking those institutions, disqualifying them as viable sources of information and directing the sheep to contoured, tailored and limited information. But to extend it further. There is an end goal to attacking these institutions. It's really a veiled attack by the wealthy to little by little over time, defund the government and it's institutions, and to dismantle the safety net, and restore the size of government to only deal with what they think are the most vital functions, which is primarily the national defense, They've effectively carried this out very successfully over the last overt 50 years by marginalizing the middle class. The end point is to have a government roughly the comparative size it was in the 1950's or to some of the more draconian, the 1930's. They are hoping to keep their gradual diminishing of expectation for the general population , but anticipate that there will be a strong displacement at some point and favor a strong law and order plank. Their long term hope is that the stronger survive and the more dependent depart over time, and a new era of self reliance typical of the 1920's or 1950's results, and of course, they hold on to their wealth and are not burdened with excessive government taxation. And it's not even a conspiracy, they just think alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) If you are not watching those hearings, you really should. I mean I watched the Watergate hearings, HSCA, Iran Contra. In my opinion this is actually a decent inquiry. They are unearthing a lot of evidence, and some interesting witnesses. The most compelling aspect is not just the Republicans in the White House who told Trump he was full of it, like Stepien, Hershmann, and Cipallone. But also the Republicans outside the White House who thought he was up the creek without a paddle. People like the deputy AG in Atlanta, Republican Commissioner Mr. Schmidt from Philly and Ben Ginsburg a veteran GOP election litigator. They even got a former senior editor from Fox News to testify. It was Pierson who called people like Powell, Rudy G, and Mr. Overstock, the crazies. I mean, just think, for Trump to appoint a special counsel to go into states to seize voting machines? These are Republicans? Voting is a function performed by the states. Yet, Trump wanted to make Powell a federal officer to go into certain states and seize voting machines, thereby overruling the power of the Secretary of State? Again, these are Republicans! Edited July 28, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) Once Trump put the Tweet out on the 18th, the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys went to work. In fact, this increased their membership significantly, perhaps by a factor of three. Their two leaders met the night before. They off loaded weapons and explosives in nearby Virginia. The almost maniacal chants that day were for Pelosi and Pence. I have little doubt that if those two had not escaped, they would have been done away with. In fact, one of the informants in the Oath Keepers later said they had planned on killing them. And they knew which office to go to for the Electoral College votes. The Proud Boys had scouted all the entrances into the Capitol, and they practiced a phalanx type movement to break the police line. Which was not that hard to do since there appears to have been a security stripping operation in effect that day. One of the female police officers was incapacitated twice. She was knocked out once and sprayed a second time. It was not Trump who was calling for help, it was Pence. Trump and Meadows made up a BS story as CYA to conceal this. In fact, Meadows actually said they had to take the halo away from Pence in their narrative. Which I think is one reason he does not want to testify. Cipallone specifically disagreed with that characterization. He said Pence did the right thing and should be acknowledged for that. If you can comprehend it, Eastman was still trying to stop the transfer of power the day after the attack. Herschmann literally told him, are you out of your f------ mind! Edited July 28, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) I should add, the congressmen were a part of it. Or else why ask for pardons? Edited July 28, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: Donald Trump appeals decision that he can be held civily liable for his actions and speech on January 6th. Declares he has absolute immunity because he was acting in his official capacity as President. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22122307-document-1-28 Steve Thomas Steve, To be fair, Trump is defending an important precedent here-- the right of future Presidents to incite violent mob attacks on Congress in the event that they lose an election. 🤥 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 hours ago, Bob Ness said: Riling people up to take a fork to their wallets is common and the Republicans have been building the audience for at least a few decades. It's the primary reason they've attacked journalism, academics, and the "liberal elite". It's imperative for them to lower the understanding of their base by attacking those institutions, disqualifying them as viable sources of information and directing the sheep to contoured, tailored and limited information. I've been saying here for years now that Trump is a two-bit con man that Republicans saw fit to hire as a President of the United States. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Steve, To be fair, Trump is defending an important precedent here-- the right of future Presidents to incite violent mob attacks on Congress in the event that they lose an election. 🤥 W., It looks like Steve Bannon's conviction has opened the floodgates. Stevw Mnuchin, Mick Mulvanery, Mike Pompeo and John Ratcliff are all lined up to testify to the Jan 6th Committee. Maybe it's only about the 25th Amendment, but who knows? Finally. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) The fact that it took Trump's own daughter to put the fear of the 25th amendment being seriously considered and used against her daddy for the violent Jan.6th coup attempt and Trump's non-action to stop it and his even encouraging and emboldening the mobsters involved ( "We love you. You are very special people") and to quell the growing call to implement it was a pathetic even sickening thing. So, we all now know this was the "only" reason Trump made that half a$$ insincere "our nation is a nation of law and order" and bald a$$ L** " I IMMEDIATELY called out the National Guard to expel the intruders." Jan. 7th speech to cover his Big Mac butt from the 25th amendment removal movement. Retired Federal Judge and conservative political icon J. Michael Luttig's warning label tagging of Trump as a "clear and present danger" to our democracy on national TV during the Jan.6th investigation committee hearing was the true beginning of the end for Trump. In my opinion Luttig's condemnation of Trump was the dejavu equivalent public paradigm shift we saw regards Joseph McCarthy on June 9th, 1954 when Army Council Joseph Welch confronted "red scare" abusive McCarthy with this famous charge: As he struggled to maintain his composure, he ( Welch ) looked at McCarthy and declared, “Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness.” It was then McCarthy’s turn to be stunned into silence, as Welch asked, “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?” I can imagine Luttig saying the same thing to Trump if given the opportunity to confront him face to face. “Until this moment, Mr. Trump, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness.” and asking “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?” Edited July 28, 2022 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) It's absolutely amazing that people could be sleepwalking through this time period,and can't see the historic significance of this. This is the greatest crime any President could commit. His cabinet officials such as Mnuchin and no less than Mike Popmpeo, Nick Mulvaney and now John Ratcliffe are now talking or negotiating talking to the DOJ, and we know now a number of them were considering invoking the 25th amendment. All the smarter people urged Trump against it, and he defied them and all Trumpie flunkies, Eastman, Giuliani, Meadows, Flynn,Banon,Sydney Powell, Jordan, Gozar, Brooks, Biggs ,Gohmert and others enthusiastically embraced it. If Trump were to stay free after this, it would be a bitter pill for the opposition to swallow, but it would be digestible. But for Trump to run again would incite a divisive incendiary reaction. Just to address the silly blase notion that none of this could be of any consequence because both parties have corporate donorship. Ben should be pleased to know, though probably not, his alleged CCP aligned West Coast Nancy Pelosi is considering going to Taiwan to express solidarity against the CCP. My God, how could that possibly be so?! Now elements of the msm are attacking her and saying her trip is dangerous.(below) But let's call this attack below what it is, this not the opinion of the NYT. This is a guest essay. This isn't an NYT endorsement. This is affording free speech rights. We can lament about the parameters that have been established by the msm about what is "legitimate discourse." But that's another matter. That's the grown up way to look at it. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/opinion/china-us-taiwan-pelosi.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220728&instance_id=67816&nl=the-morning®i_id=61798350&segment_id=99761&te=1&user_id=48552702f942aacb0810b9de5ca41c55 P.S. Fox news decided to carry Mike Pence's speech yesterday but didn't carry Trump's speech! That should tell you something.. Edited July 28, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: P.S. Fox news decided to carry Mike Pence's speech yesterday but didn't carry Trump's speech! That should tell you something. Murdoch is throwing Trump under the bus. This is going to be very entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: If Trump were to stay free after this, it would be a bitter pill for the opposition to swallow, but it would be digestible. It would be WAY MORE damaging than just a bitter pill to swallow! And too riskily "not digestible." It would be a massive and cowardly caving in blow to our national belief, faith, trust and respect for our constitution and it's sacred tenets of "Liberty and justice for ALL" and that "no one American is above the law." It would undermine and weaken the most basic foundations of our democracy in those most serious ways. KG you just stated..."This is the greatest crime a President could commit." If a President guilty of this greatest crime can just walk away from it without even a trial, what good is our constitution and where does it end? 25 of Nixon's highest level staff ALL went to JAIL over the much less serious crime of Watergate and Nixon barely got out of serving time by the skin of his teeth and his buddy Gerry Ford's outrageously unethical pardon. If Trump walks away from this 100X more serious crime of the huge terrorizing " HANG MIKE PENCE-KILL NANCY PELOSI !" screaming violent mob attack Jan. 6th coup attempt there will never be a worthy return to the trust, respect, faith and belief in the strength and validity of our "justice for all" constitution...the last keystone we have left to defend regards our democratic principled way of life. We need to be BRAVE and stand up for our constitution and democracy against all enemies foreign and domestic when they assault it as violently as Trump's directed and non-confronted mob did on Jan. 6th, 2021. We cannot let fear of Trump's most violent supporters keep us from standing up for the most important keystone of our democracy. Like I said...we are definitely in a "High Noon" stand your ground type situation with the violent Trump gang forces bad guys and their law breaking versus our constitution defending Jan.6th committee and Merrick Garland. The question is...do we stand with Gary Cooper ...or not! Videos of Song Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling bing.com/videos 2:39 Do Not Forsake Me, Oh My Darling FRANKIE LAINE (with lyrics) 2:52 Edited July 29, 2022 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: It would be WAY MORE damaging than just a bitter pill to swallow! It would be a massive blow to our national belief, faith, trust and respect for our constitution and it's sacred tenets of "Liberty and justice for ALL" and that "no one American is above the law." It would undermine and weaken the most basic foundations of our democracy in those most serious ways. KG you just stated..."This is the greatest crime a President could commit." If a President guilty of this greatest crime can just walk away from it without even a trial, where does it end? 25 of Nixon's highest level staff ALL went to JAIL over the much less serious crime of Watergate and Nixon barely got out of serving time by the skin of his teeth and his buddy Gerry Ford's outrageously unethical pardon. If Trump walks away from this 100X more serious crime of the huge terrorizing " HANG MIKE PENCE-KILL NANCY PELOSI !" screaming violent mob attack Jan. 6th coup attempt there will never be a worthy return to the trust, respect, faith and belief in the strength and validity of our "justice for all" constitution...the last keystone we have left to defend regards our democratic principled way of life. We need to be BRAVE and stand up for our constitution and democracy against all enemies foreign and domestic when they assault it as violently as Trump's directed and non-confronted mob did on Jan. 6th, 2021. We cannot let fear of Trump's most violent supporters keep us from standing up for the most important keystone of our democracy. Like I said...we are definitely in a "High Noon" stand your ground type situation with the violent Trump gang forces bad guys and their law breaking versus our constitution defending Jan.6th committee and Merrick Garland. The question is...do we stand with Gary Cooper ...or not! Videos of Song Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling bing.com/videos 2:39 Do Not Forsake Me, Oh My Darling FRANKIE LAINE (with lyrics) 2:52 I applaud your sentiments Joe. i think if it was in the reverse and Trump was indicted, there'd be a stronger reaction among his followers, but ultimately it would be manageable. But I've been amazed at the restraint of Trump opposition. Particularly before the Hutchinson testimony. There's been a huffing and puffing, but now we got a lot of good hard results. But the Trump opposition is so frightened of Trump up to now, they'd give up almost anything to just have Trump out of the picture. I'm also against that. Honestly I think he's already out of the picture. But it seems like our side never doubles down with a winning hand but plays it conciliatory between the 40 yard lines and always hopes to make America one happy family again. I think that's unrealistic and a real stand must be taken, and not just a hope the causes will just go away on their own. But ok, let's hope we can close the deal for once. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) The Proud Boys were walking toward the Hill at 10:30 am. A key point. Since Trump had not even spoken yet. This was very likely to measure what defenses were going to be available. There were little or none. The documentary film-maker said there might have been about 12 cops around at that time. Versus about 250 Proud Boys. Quested also said that he knew there was going to be trouble when he had a problem booking a hotel room. When you see those films, its really kind of shocking to watch the ferocity with which they utter Pelosi and Pence's names--and only those names. They knew the process. And they knew where the Electoral Votes were stored. Its lucky that the secretary took them with her as they evacuated. Edited July 28, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: The Proud Boys were walking toward the Hill at 10:30 am. A key point. Since Trump had not even spoken yet. This was very likely to measure what defenses were going to be available. There were little or none. The documentary film-maker said there might have been about 12 cops around at that time. Versus about 250 Proud Boys. Quested also said that he knew there was going to be trouble when he had a problem booking a hotel room. When you see those films, its really kind of shocking to watch the ferocity with which they utter Pelosi and Pence's names--and only those names. They knew the process. And they knew where the Electoral Votes were stored. Its lucky that the secretary took them with her as they evacuated. Jim- "The documentary film-maker said there might have been about 12 cops around at that time. Versus about 250 Proud Boys." Where do these numbers come from and what do they mean? The Capitol Police department has 3,500 officers, and the DC Metro another 2,500 officers. All armed. On 1/5 the M$M was alive with stories there would be troubles on 1/6, including NPR. Where do you get the number "12" for cops? Most accounts have the Oath Keepers with 14 or so guys in DC (who went into DC from Virginia unarmed on 1/6). The Proud Boys are said by the Lawfare blog to have been "a tiny percentage" of the 1/6 occupation, though perhaps key in the breaching. The Proud Boys were also unarmed, as only one person arrested in the Capitol breach was armed. BTW, Ray Epps admits to having been an Oath Keeper, and is copiously video-ed exhorting protestors to "into the Capitol," on 1/5 an 1/6 and was present at the initial breach. If you believe there was planning to breach the Capitol that day...what gives on Epps? Is it possible to believe that there was planning by the two-dozen or so Oath Keepers and Proud Boys to breach the Capitol---albeit going up unarmed against the armed, 3,500-member Capital Police---but simultaneously exonerate Ray Epps? An interesting take on 1/6, and not at all flattering to Trump---but deep: https://www.lawfareblog.com/conspirators-proud-boys-and-oath-keepers-jan-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 A bipartisan group? What is that? 24 House Republicans break with leadership, vote with Democrats to pass chip bill (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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