Towards A Simple, Plausible Yet Explanatory Conspiracy Theory

[Joe Bauer]

10 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

"A" was the 6th floor south east sniper window as marked on CE 356.

Rowland went on to mention observing " 2 or 3" "negro" people underneath the sniper window on the 5th floor.

Arnold Rowland was clearly the most credible Dealey Plaza eyewitness to men in the upper floor school book depository windows just minutes before JFK was hit imo.

He was farther back than Euins ( who was more underneath ) which actually gave Rowland a better 'full frontal' viewing perspective.

Rowland also kept looking at the upper floor windows longer than anyone else. His descriptions were quite detailed. The balding older negro man, the color and type of shirt he was wearing. He described the rifle carrying man in the sixth floor window with not just physical details, but a general type of rifle ( high powered ) and even how this man held the rifle.

Rowland also stated early on his observation of the 2 or 3 negro men in the open windows just below the alleged snipers window. Just more credible recounting.

Rowland was young with great eyesight. He was fairly intelligent sounding. Everything I have ever read about his multiple statements under questioning and his personal background only bolstered the believability and accuracy of his story.

We have a couple of buildings here in downtown Monterey, California that are 6 stories high. One is configured somewhat like the TXSBD in that it is square with many windows. This is the Marriot Hotel.

I have stationed myself at different distances from the Marriot based on the known distances that Rowland gave from his location to the TXSBD when he observed the men in the higher floors. I believe it was around 175 feet?

 

"Mr. SPECTER - What is your best estimate of the distance between where you were standing and the man holding the rifle whom you have just described?

Mr. ROWLAND - 150 feet approximately, very possibly more. I don't know for sure.
Mr. SPECTER - Are you very good at judging distances of that sort?
Mr. ROWLAND - Fairly good.
Mr. SPECTER - Have you had any experience or practice at judging such distances?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. Even in using the method in physics or, you know, elementary physics of looking at a position in two different views, you can tell its distance. I did that quite frequently. And the best I can recollect it was within 150 to 175 feet."

 

I have also gone as far away as 268 feet which was the distance of JFK's limo at the time of the head shot as well.

Like the TXSBD on 11,22,1963, the Monterey Marriot also faces South. Which means that in the noon hour, that side of the hotel is very brightly bathed in full sun.

I am always amazed at how clearly I can see anyone in those 6th floor windows from these distances and at mid-day.

Not just because those distances are not that far away, but having full bright sun illuminating the entire side of the hotel ( and with no shadows ) just brings out every detail. Even several feet into any open windows.

A few times I did see guests looking out their open windows.  With 20/20 eyesight, I too could describe them as well as Rowland.

Carolyn Walther also had a better perspective than Euins.

Like Rowland she too was on Houston street and I believe even closer to the TXSBD than him.

Based on how clearly I could see into the windows of a very similar 6 or 7 story building in full sun and from the same distances, I also believe Walther could see the kinds of details she stated when she saw one and even two men behind the open 6th floor window. She described two men holding rifles. She even described one of the men as wearing a brown sportscoat.

Walthers got the floor wrong. To be honest, this is a common mistake. Who counts floors under her circumstances? And many people count the second story floor as the first.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Joe Bauer

[Richard Booth]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Richard Booth: Many thanks for reading my piece, amd such a thoughtful and on-target response. I will have to read your reply a few more times, before I respond. 

As I said, I was trying to put together a JFKA with the minimum number of participants, so loose lips would not sink ships, before or after. Consider it thought-inducing design constraint. 

Thanks again for reading I will get back to you. 

I consider it Angleton's master genius at work. The master of plots within plots, of merging fantasy and reality, he designed this wilderness of mirrors and put together the layers of the onion such that major departments of the CIA became entrenched in an assassination plot and didn't even know it. 

[Richard Booth]

5 hours ago, John Butler said:

The Kennedy Assassination was not a simple affair conducted by a small number of people.  From what I understand the assassination was scheduled for:

1. Dallas

2. MIami

3. Chicago

4.  Los Angeles

5, and others

Different teams and patsies were selected for other places. 

  

Good point John. I agree with you.

I think it was a complex affair planned at very high levels with Jim Angleton and Allan Dulles at the top. 

The only way this works is if you get people in key departments participating in the plot without them knowing they are participating in JFK's assassination. By making sure that you have people in every key department contributing you guarantee they will all cover it up after the fact.

The fact that this was planned for Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and Maryland shows it was definitely bigger than a few Cuban exiles hijacking something.

I agree with Ben's analysis of how a plot was hijacked, but propose the inverse of what he said: that very high level people created and sold something other than an assassination plot and they pulled a bait and switch. 

[John Butler]

43 minutes ago, Richard Booth said:

Good point John. I agree with you.

I think it was a complex affair planned at very high levels with Jim Angleton and Allan Dulles at the top. 

The only way this works is if you get people in key departments participating in the plot without them knowing they are participating in JFK's assassination. By making sure that you have people in every key department contributing you guarantee they will all cover it up after the fact.

The fact that this was planned for Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and Maryland shows it was definitely bigger than a few Cuban exiles hijacking something.

I agree with Ben's analysis of how a plot was hijacked, but propose the inverse of what he said: that very high level people created and sold something other than an assassination plot and they pulled a bait and switch. 

Thanks Richard,

It is my belief that the Executive Branch of the government plotted and killed Kennedy.  Nearly all of the heads of the various action arms of the Executive Branch were involved in some fashion or another.  Maybe the ATF was left out, and the IRS had a small part,  but certainly all the others had some part to play.  I believe they hated Kennedy and thought he was a traitor by aiding Castro and Khruschev.  Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  It's what they thought that mattered.  At the head of this cabal of executive branch agencies were the leaders influenced by LBJ, J. Edgar Hoover, CIA leaders Dulles and Angleton, and various military leaders, particularly the ones that showed up at the autopsy.  These were the primary groups involved in the assassination.  Others were involved also, but at a lower level.

 

[Tony Krome]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Rowland was young with great eyesight. He was fairly intelligent sounding.

IQ 147.

Yes, I enjoy reading Rowland's testimony. He gives us clear descriptions of two simultaneous occupiers of the 6th floor ... and he reported the south west rifle holder within minutes to Craig.

The rifle guy was facing Rowland, the sun reflecting over the entire weapon which was held at 45 degrees across his chest. He was looking in Rowland's direction for a good 15 seconds ..... in plain sight.

The rifle guy was slender, height undetermined, short dark hair, wearing an outer light coloured, half-way buttoned up shirt over a polo shirt.

AND at 12:15pm .... where the rifle guy was standing, in the south west corner, BOTH windows were fully open whereas only one was open at circa 11:00am. This "Oswaldesque" guy really wanted to be seen.

[Cliff Varnell]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

As I said, I was trying to put together a JFKA with the minimum number of participants, so loose lips would not sink ships, before or after. Consider it thought-inducing design constraint.

A long overdue exercise, Benjamin, great thread.

I like to approach the fact of conspiracy with a similar "constraint."

[Cliff Varnell]

On 4/3/2021 at 11:30 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

Towards A Simple, Plausible Yet Explanatory Conspiracy Theory

 

That there was a conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy is a near certainty, as the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979.

 

The HSCA conclusion was a scam as much as the Warren Commission conclusion.  That JFK was murdered in a multi-shooter ambush was officially established on June 28, 1966 when Gaeton Fonzi confronted Arlen Specter with the clothing evidence -- the author of the Single Bullet Theory had a nervous breakdown.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Featured_Fonzi-Specter_Interviews.html

It doesn't get any better than that.  The HSCA logged in the clothing evidence, but to promote it would have cast aspersions on the military run autopsy. 

So the HSCA finessed the issue by offering up the acoustics evidence, to feed the burgeoning complexity-fetish now rampant in the JFKA Critical Community.

There is no "near certainty."  The bullet holes in the clothes are too low to associate with the throat wound.  Period. 

On 4/3/2021 at 11:30 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

In the decades since the HSCA stumbled to its conclusion, the evidence supporting the conspiracy view of JFK’s death has only become stronger, including the certain debunking of CE 399, the infamous “magic bullet.”

Demonstrably incorrect.  The case for conspiracy has been driven down rabbit holes of highly technical, ancillary issues.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/11/poll-jfk-conspiracy/2152665/

<quote on>

A clear majority of Americans still suspect there was a conspiracy behind President John F. Kennedy's assassination, but the percentage who believe accused shooter Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone is at its highest level since the mid-1960s, according to a new Associated Press-GfK poll.

According to the AP-GfK survey, conducted in mid-April, 59% of Americans think multiple people were involved in a conspiracy to kill the president, while 24% think Oswald acted alone, and 16% are unsure. A 2003 Gallup poll found that 75% of Americans felt there was a conspiracy.

As the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's death approaches, the number of Americans who believe Oswald acted alone is at its highest since the period three years after the Nov. 22, 1963 assassination, when 36% said one man was responsible. </q>

The conspiracy side dropped 16% points in a decade.  Why?

Dr. Cyril Wecht Disappointed by Oswald Hung Jury Verdict but Says Mock Trials on JFK Assassination Should Continue

https://throughtheoswaldwindow.com/articles/dr-cyril-wecht/

For two days the 2017 mock trial jury was inveigled with the acoustics evidence, the Neutron Activation Analysis, the provenance of CE 399, and in depth study of the head wound/s.

The jury came back six for LHO as a lone nut, five for his innocence and one abstained.

Arlen Specter had a nervous breakdown with the clothing evidence shoved in his face but still the JFKA Master Class won't have anything to do with the T3 back wound.

In my book that's not progress.

 

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Paul B.--

"Your theory needs the guilty being named, or guessed at anyway, and I’m talking about the Cabal that hijacked the false flag operation."--PB

That's the point of my article!

The "guilty" are some relatively low-level exiles who piggybacked on Phillips' PR stunt.  Eladio Del Valle for example, but maybe some other bald guy, or maybe even a guy wearing a fake bald-looking beanie cap as a disguise.   

One could posit "the guilty" are those who intentionally leaked the false-flag plan to the exiles (and that could go up to Dulles or Angleton), or were sloppy and the false-flag assassination plot leaked.  

Or maybe Phillips showed extraordinarily bad judgement, and hired Cuban exiles to do the false-flag job in combo with LOH, and the exiles did it their way, for real. 

As I said, where the CIA higher-ups probably became involved was in the cover-up and murder of LOH. Somebody had to promise something to Marcello (or perhaps a guy named Civello) to get Ruby to do the deed. Marcello was going to extract assurances from the highest levels. 

And Blakely said the LBJ Administration backed off of mob-hunting. 

Anyways, that my guess. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically your plot absolves CIA central command, though you say it’s at least possible that Angleton and Dulles might be in on it. And you still base Phillips’ involvement to Veciana’s stories? I was on that page for a long time, but no longer believe it. Well, who knows? 
I think like Cliff that the killers, the actual shooters and those for whom they worked, had an agenda different than Cuba - Vietnam. Castro lived out his days in relative peace, unlike millions of SE Asians. This is why I think it unlikely that the shooters were Cuban. Going down the trail of the Cuban exiles is surely suggestive, and they certainly had a grudge. But they never got what they wanted. Also down that hole are CIA/Mafia connections. The shenanigans at the autopsy, the murder of Oswald, all done by forces not engaged in with the original false flag operation or the piggybacked one, for expediency, rallying around the flag and the new Prez, or their own self interests. In a nutshell, changing Cuba policy was the target of both plots. It does seem logical, and I would bet it’s a majority opinion that Cuban exiles were at the heart of it. 
My opinion differs, and that all it is - an opinion - from yours because I think the piggybackers set up the false flag operation before they hijacked it, providing cover for themselves. I think the CIA/Military nexus is at the heart, and that Lansdale is a more suspicious character than Phillips. I incline towards outsourced assassins that did not include Oswald and were not shooting from the TSBD, either Corsican or from that drug running clique, shooters for hire. What I really disagree with is the notion that some Cuban exiles took advantage on their own and turned a faked attempt into a real assassination. 
 

[Tony Krome]

23 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Rowland, a couple of other questions.
Are you able to give us any other type of a description of the Negro gentleman whom you observed in the window we marked "A" with respect to height, weight, age? 
Mr. ROWLAND - He was very thin, an elderly gentleman, bald or practically bald, very thin hair if he wasn't bald. Had on a plaid shirt. I think it was red and green, very bright color, that is why I remember it. 
Mr. SPECTER - Can you give us an estimate as to age? 
Mr. ROWLAND - Fifty; possibly 55 or 60. 
Mr. SPECTER - Can you give us an estimate as to height? 
Mr. ROWLAND - 5'8", 5'10", in that neighborhood. He was very slender, very thin. 
Mr. SPECTER - Can you give us a more definite description as to complexion? 
Mr. ROWLAND - Very dark or fairly dark, not real dark compared to some Negroes, but fairly dark. Seemed like his face was either--I can't recall detail but it was either very wrinkled or marked in some way. 

The guy below has hair, a moustache, and looks young. Rowland definitely  didn't describe that guy in the sniper window.

So who was the old bald "negro" noticed in the sniper window from just before 12:15 to around 12:24? The only employee that comes close is the guy below. If not him, maybe an outsider.

[Benjamin Cole]

10 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

A long overdue exercise, Benjamin, great thread.

I like to approach the fact of conspiracy with a similar "constraint."

Thanks, Cliff. 

I cannot prove anything. My gut tells me the plot to kill JFK had to be small, very small in terms of knowing participants. 

That said, I do not regard my scenario as the be-all, end-all. It is a description of how a plot could be very small, and dovetails with certain undisputed facts about the case. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

10 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

So basically your plot absolves CIA central command, though you say it’s at least possible that Angleton and Dulles might be in on it. And you still base Phillips’ involvement to Veciana’s stories? I was on that page for a long time, but no longer believe it. Well, who knows? 
I think like Cliff that the killers, the actual shooters and those for whom they worked, had an agenda different than Cuba - Vietnam. Castro lived out his days in relative peace, unlike millions of SE Asians. This is why I think it unlikely that the shooters were Cuban. Going down the trail of the Cuban exiles is surely suggestive, and they certainly had a grudge. But they never got what they wanted. Also down that hole are CIA/Mafia connections. The shenanigans at the autopsy, the murder of Oswald, all done by forces not engaged in with the original false flag operation or the piggybacked one, for expediency, rallying around the flag and the new Prez, or their own self interests. In a nutshell, changing Cuba policy was the target of both plots. It does seem logical, and I would bet it’s a majority opinion that Cuban exiles were at the heart of it. 
My opinion differs, and that all it is - an opinion - from yours because I think the piggybackers set up the false flag operation before they hijacked it, providing cover for themselves. I think the CIA/Military nexus is at the heart, and that Lansdale is a more suspicious character than Phillips. I incline towards outsourced assassins that did not include Oswald and were not shooting from the TSBD, either Corsican or from that drug running clique, shooters for hire. What I really disagree with is the notion that some Cuban exiles took advantage on their own and turned a faked attempt into a real assassination. 
 

Paul B-

Of course, your scenario is entirely possible as well. 

Not to challenge you, but to foment conversation, could you describe your scenario in terms of number of witting participants? 

And what was LOH's level of involvement in your scenario? 

Did CIA brass deliberately make LOH a patsy, despite him being a loyal, or at least serviceable assets for years? 

How and when did LOH determine he was a patsy? 

Did CIA brass intend for LOH to be dead in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA? Otherwise, there would be a lot of risk LOH would begin to talk about what he knew. 

Surely, John Newman has taken a whack at Veciana. But I find Newman curiously peevish in some of his commentary about Veciana, and also demanding of excruciatingly strict timelines from a man in his winter, decades from events.

Paper records can be lost, stolen or faked.  Could Newman be led up the wrong tree by some planted documents? 

Many people consider Phillips' claim he did not even know who was Veciana to be a stretch. 

Well, let us see Newman comes up with. He is being rather coy. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

16 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

Good point John. I agree with you.

I think it was a complex affair planned at very high levels with Jim Angleton and Allan Dulles at the top. 

The only way this works is if you get people in key departments participating in the plot without them knowing they are participating in JFK's assassination. By making sure that you have people in every key department contributing you guarantee they will all cover it up after the fact.

The fact that this was planned for Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and Maryland shows it was definitely bigger than a few Cuban exiles hijacking something.

I agree with Ben's analysis of how a plot was hijacked, but propose the inverse of what he said: that very high level people created and sold something other than an assassination plot and they pulled a bait and switch. 

I have to concede, if there really were CIA-assisted or planned bona-fide assassination plots in Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and Maryland, then there had be be a squad somewhere inside military intel or the CIA working details out. 

That is, more witting participants than I think is likely. 

But some of these other plots look a little thin, and there is such a thing as a lone-nut gunman. See the Reagan shooting. Some lady-nut pointed a gun at President Ford.  

The Chicago plots remain tantalizing, but appear also to involve Cubans. 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Andrews]

6 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

The guy below has hair, a moustache, and looks young. Rowland definitely  didn't describe that guy in the sniper window.

So who was the old bald "negro" noticed in the sniper window from just before 12:15 to around 12:24? The only employee that comes close is the guy below. If not him, maybe an outsider.

Anti-Castro Cuban guerilla Nestor Izquierdo (of African descent) has been suggested here before, though he was only about 27 at the time, and apparently not naturally balding.  The Miami Cuban-American community erected a statue to him in Little Havana, and whispers allege that it's because...

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKizquierdo.htm

Gerry Hemming put him as as spotter in the Dal-Tex, but others have speculated TSBD.  It would seem a waste to use him as a mere spotter, though he might have been trained in that role.

But then, how lethal was a shot from the TSBD intended to be?  The piggybacking scenario opens additional questions:

Were the TSBD shooter and the Grassy Knoll team intended to be the fake, near-miss assassination provocateurs, while additional, piggybacked teams are firing lethal shots?

• ·         The team on the Grassy Knoll are very visible, and fire rounds that leave a smoke cloud.  They are the team that puts a gunpowder scent into the Plaza air
• ·         The TSBD team leaves weapons behind to be found – part of the original near-miss plan
• ·         If we accept that JFK took a survivable low shoulder hit and the slug exited a shallow wound, might that have been a low-powered round specifically used by the TSBD team, to wound JFK but not kill?
• ·         The idea of multiple teams jibes with Tosh Plumlee’s account of being part of a team sent to spot shooter teams in the plaza – multiple interests are in play

In this scenario, Oswald would have been set up as a patsy for (false-flag, near miss) shooter teams in the TSBD and on the Grassy Knoll - he would be the only one captured, but unfortunately killed.  He would be made a conspirator by reputation, as part of the original false-flag plot that was co-opted by lethal shooters.

Are these the locations for the lethal shooting teams?  Pick the best/fewest from:

• ·         Dal-Tex building
• ·         Elevated storm drain below the north side of the underpass
• ·         South knoll
• ·         Post Office admin building on south side of Plaza
• ·         County Records building on southeast corner of Plaza

My belief is that Connally takes his first hit, the through-and-through right torso wound, at about Z-300, while he’s turned right to look back at JFK.  I don’t put a lot of concern into delayed reactions and lapel flaps: he couldn’t have made that turn if he’d already been shot through the torso.  When we see Connally hit at Z-300, his back is exposed to the south side of the Plaza.  It would be interesting to try to line up the wound path with trajectories leading to the County Records building or the Post Office building.

Also, might the cancelled Chicago trip, with its team of shooters apprehended, been an earlier near-miss, false-flag operation that the Dallas murder plotters could not take advantage of, having invested in piggybacking on the Dealey false-flag op?

Edited April 8, 2021 by David Andrews

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I have to concede, if there really were CIA-assisted or planned bona-fide assassination plots in Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and Maryland, then there had be be a squad somewhere inside military intel or the CIA working details out. 

That is, more witting participants than I think is likely. 

But some of these other plots look a little thin, and there is such a thing as a lone-nut gunman. See the Reagan shooting. Some lady-nut pointed a gun at President Ford.  

The Chicago plots remain tantalizing, but appear also to involve Cubans. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would love to see some really in depth analysis on John Hinckley Jr and all that led him to the attempt on Reagan. It's one of those peculiar coincidences that he knew VP GHW Bush personally, I think one his siblings and Bush's sons were due to have a meal together the following day. GHW Bush would have become president if Reagan died. We can turn anything into conspiracy if we try hard enough but, considering the population of the USA at the time, it's an odd one. There are some that wonder if the hypnotism / MK ultra logic was a potential factor, like is alleged in the Sirhan Sirhan RFK assassination case. I have seen his profile, on face value Hinckley looks like an attention seeking nut in the media. 

I just wonder if having looked at the RFK assassination and the JFK assassination, whether it gives a different picture or a wider context as opposed to having just looked at one in isolation? The book by Lisa Pease I read last year was very interesting and in that assassination (RFK), there seemed to be quite a lot of people involved on some level. All of this is perhaps one for other threads. 

[David Boylan]

Izquierdo and others are written about here - Essay - The Wheaton Lead (maryferrell.org)

 

Larry Hancock covers this and more in his new book - Tipping Point.