Destiny Betrayed 2022

[Ron Bulman]

We watched Chapter 3 last night (my wife is actually in to and somewhat understands this as opposed to reading anything and my rantings!).   We're about to watch Chapter 4. 

Last night the brain stood out to me.  The comments of all who did so about it were interesting and informative.  From photographing it to, it's removal, to it's weight/half of it missing.  To all of it missing.  

In particular the cerebellum though.  Once again all of the presenters were excellent, with very important information.  But Dr. Wecht makes me shake my head up and down and grin, back at him.   Ninety years young. Still lucid, emphatic, facts laid out quickly.  Discovering the brain was missing in 1966.  To in your face today with a grin on his.  As sad as it is to say.  Some of JFK's cerebellum was oozing out of his cranium at Parkland.  Witnesses support this.

[Jamey Flanagan]

Yeah, I definitely enjoyed the 4 hour version much more than the 2 hour. And not just cause it was longer either. Just had better pacing or something. Hard to put my finger on. It was just a more enjoyable viewing experience to me all around. Maybe it's because it's somewhat compartmentalized by being broken down into 4 episodes.

[Vince Palamara]

5 minutes ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

Yeah, I definitely enjoyed the 4 hour version much more than the 2 hour. And not just cause it was longer either. Just had better pacing or something. Hard to put my finger on. It was just a more enjoyable viewing experience to me all around. Maybe it's because it's somewhat compartmentalized by being broken down into 4 episodes.

I agree! While I enjoyed the two hour version at the time (I saw it twice), I watched all four episodes back to back today and I loved it. Episode 3 was my favorite. I love the medical evidence and all the nuts and bolts of the case. While I respect the foreign policy stuff, it leaves me a little restless and cold- I want to get back to the evidence! On another note...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH ROBERT KENNEDY JR.'S VOICE? He sounds like the late Rose Kennedy. I do NOT mean to sound disrespectful; just wondering. It sounds almost like a paralyzed vocal chord or (as my wife said) like he is always very emotional when he speaks. I hate to say this, but it distracts from his message.

[Ron Bulman]

3 minutes ago, Vince Palamara said:

I agree! While I enjoyed the two hour version at the time (I saw it twice), I watched all four episodes back to back today and I loved it. Episode 3 was my favorite. I love the medical evidence and all the nuts and bolts of the case. While I respect the foreign policy stuff, it leaves me a little restless and cold- I want to get back to the evidence! On another note...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH ROBERT KENNEDY JR.'S VOICE? He sounds like the late Rose Kennedy. I do NOT mean to sound disrespectful; just wondering. It sounds almost like a paralyzed vocal chord or (as my wife said) like he is always very emotional when he speaks. I hate to say this, but it distracts from his message.

Vince, he has a legitimate medical vocal problem though I don't remember the details. I'm glad to hear him speak, especially the last part.   About the necessity of a re investigation of his fathers death.  In relation to his uncles, as well.

[Sandy Larsen]

6 hours ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

Thanks for responding, Sandy.

I’m not sure I’ve seen evidence that the CIA on day one was alerting the larger USG to that scenario. Recall Hoover discussing the tape with allegedly the voice of LHO that didn’t match the prisoner in Dallas with LBJ.

 

Yes, I think you are right Michaleen. I don't think there was word of the CIA's fake Cuban/Russian involvement that early on.

But I do think that even as early as 11/22 there was talk in the Johnson Administration about nipping in the bud any rumors of a communist conspiracy, given Oswald's background. What better way to do that than to deny there was any conspiracy at all? That a lone nut did the deed.

What an unwelcome surprise it must have been to later learn of Oswald's meeting with Kostikov, the $6500, etc. etc.

 

6 hours ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

And if anyone truly believed the Soviets or Cubans were involved, would the entire USG really let that go?

 

I doubt it. But I think the USG would have dealt with later, in secret, when all the facts were in. They wouldn't have wanted public opinion driving foreign policy. Better to keep the public in the dark.

 

[Bob Ness]

10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

As I have said before, the way I found out about the horns was through Ray Marcus.

A true first generation researcher. He calls me up one day and he says, Jim which version of Ruby shooting Oswald do you have?

I said, what do you mean, which version?

He said the one horner or the two horner? I said the one horner.

He said then you have the edited version, I will send you the unedited one.

It is really kind of surprising when you first see it.  Because of the timing being so precise: horn 1, Oswald enters the foyer;  horn 2, Ruby jumps forward.

I am not saying this was deliberate.  But I am saying its odd that it was edited in the first place.

From my understanding, the only live feed on this was through NBC.  Was it them who edited it?

Well... The verdict is in after just two episodes. Very rare. My wife is comparing her interest in Destiny Betrayed to Chernobyl, which we both thought was the best thing on screen for many years.

That's very tall cotton and her opinion as a neophyte on the JFKA and a well educated and experienced physician is meaningful. I am pleasantly surprised and have to say the show is fantastic.

Even though I'm somewhat knowledable about the subject it doesn't just regurgitate old information. The two horns surprised me as has several other points. IE Is CE399 actually a red herring,switched out and replacing a bullet that was from an altogether different caliber gun? Fascinating.

Kudos to you and the other filmakers Jim. We're really looking forward to seeing the other two even though we'll be dissappointed there won't be more.

[Vince Palamara]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Vince, he has a legitimate medical vocal problem though I don't remember the details. I'm glad to hear him speak, especially the last part.   About the necessity of a re investigation of his fathers death.  In relation to his uncles, as well.

Wow--he does: What happened to Robert Kennedy Jr's voice and when did it change? (thefocus.news)

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks so much Bob.  And your wife should be a good barometer.

That is the kind of audience I was aiming at.

Edited March 13, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

RFK Jr does have a vocal cord problem.

I have to say: towards the end of his interview, I tapped on Oliver's shoulder and said: ask him if he thinks the assassination of his father was related to the assassination of his uncle.

We cut out a lot of what he said.  But even Bob Richardson, the cameraman, was stunned by how forceful that reply was.   I think it was the single most powerful moment in all of the well over 40 hours of interviews we did. Partly because he is the only member of his  family you could even ask that question to. 

[Vince Palamara]

8 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

RFK Jr does have a vocal cord problem.

I have to say: towards the end of his interview, I tapped on Oliver's shoulder and said: ask him if he thinks the assassination of his father was related to the assassination of his uncle.

We cut out a lot of what he said.  But even Bob Richardson, the cameraman, was stunned by how forceful that reply was.   I think it was the single most powerful moment in all of the well over 40 hours of interviews we did. Partly because he is the only member of his  family you could even ask that question to. 

Very interesting!

Yes, at first I chalked it up to a hereditary problem because, like I said, he sounds like Rose Kennedy. I am sorry he has vocal chord problems. I will say this: I can understand everything he says and coming from him adds more weight.

[Michaleen Kilroy]

13 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Yes, I think you are right Michaleen. I don't think there was word of the CIA's fake Cuban/Russian involvement that early on.

But I do think that even as early as 11/22 there was talk in the Johnson Administration about nipping in the bud any rumors of a communist conspiracy, given Oswald's background. What better way to do that than to deny there was any conspiracy at all? That a lone nut did the deed.

What an unwelcome surprise it must have been to later learn of Oswald's meeting with Kostikov, the $6500, etc. etc.

 

 

I doubt it. But I think the USG would have dealt with later, in secret, when all the facts were in. They wouldn't have wanted public opinion driving foreign policy. Better to keep the public in the dark.

 

Fairly reasonable explanations I guess but I’m still amazed how fast it came down to focus on single shooter from TSBD across local and federal law enforcement.

I do believe the Johnson admin had contacted DA Wade that first night to stop the ‘communist conspiracy’ talk. 

But from the documentary I believe SS were bullying Parkland doctors earlier and seizing TV interview footage that didn’t jive with the single shooter from behind story. 

I also think Bundy had contacted AF1 in flight and told LBJ it was single shooter from behind.

Would love to see a timeline on how quickly the single shooter theory was decreed and what was the chain of command responsible for it. 

The CIA conspirators couldn’t have picked a better patsy than LHO - they win if people play up the communist conspiracy and invade Cuba or stick with lone gun man that hides their hand. And they couldn’t have better partners in covering up the crime in LBJ, Hoover and apparently all USG agencies involved.

Amazing how almost everyone with few exceptions (Sibert and O’Neill for example) obeyed their orders and kept their mouths shut.

[James DiEugenio]

According to Newman, on the day of the assassination, Angleton released the Mexico CIty/ Kostikov stuff.

That night the CIA had DUran arrested and escorted Elena Garro to a hotel room.

We know Hoover had the tape and the photo in about 24 hours. And was on the phone with LBJ about it after.

Edited March 13, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Michaleen Kilroy]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

According to Newman, on the day of the assassination, Angleton released the Mexico CIty/ Kostikov stuff.

That night the CIA had DUran arrested and escorted Elena Garro to a hotel room.

We know Hoover had the tape and the photo in about 24 hours. And was on the phone with LBJ about after.

Thanks, Jim. I hadn’t realized the ‘WWIII’ virus was released by Angleton so soon. And by ‘released’ I assume he notified LBJ and Hoover that first day?

If so, I could see that scaring everyone off a real investigation at least until they could be sure the communists were not involved. 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

According to Newman, on the day of the assassination, Angleton released the Mexico CIty/ Kostikov stuff.

That night the CIA had DUran arrested and escorted Elena Garro to a hotel room.

We know Hoover had the tape and the photo in about 24 hours. And was on the phone with LBJ about it after.

 

2 hours ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

Thanks, Jim. I hadn’t realized the ‘WWIII’ virus was released by Angleton so soon.

 

Thanks from me too. I'm glad that Michaleen brought this up as it is something I've wondered about for quite a while.

 

[Denny Zartman]

@James DiEugenio In the film I seem to recall a reference to "new" Air Force One tapes. Could you elaborate on that? I'd love a reference alternative to Max Holland's book, which itself has imho lots of suspicious and intriguing statements as it is.