Who was Jack Ruby?

[Ron Ecker]

The last I heard, Gabriel only has one horn. (Well, I haven't heard it yet.)

 

 

[Steve Thomas]

3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Steve:

Later, it was Jack Revill who supervised the Police Department investigation in Ruby's killing of Oswald. 

 

Andrej,

Actually, the DPD's internal investigation of Ruby's killing of Oswald was headed by Captain O.A. Jones of the Criminal Investigation Division's, Forgery Bureau. 

The team consisted of about six Lieutenants, led by Paul McCaghren of CID's, Burglary and Theft Bureau. You can read his HSCA testimony here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/mccaghr.htm

Revill was just one of the Lieutenants. Cornwall of the Special Service Bureau was another, and I think C.C. Wallace of the Juvenile Bureau was another.

Ironically, Curry appointed the "Task Force" on November 29th,  the same day that Johnson commissioned the Warren Commission.

Initially, they were tasked with finding out how Ruby got into the basement, but ultimately branched out into several other areas including the Tippitt shooting, and whether Ruby and Oswald knew each other. The Task Force was abruptly disbanded about a month and a half after they started, around the time when the Dallas Police Department turned all its investigative material to the Texas Attorney General, Waggoner Carr. You'll find that the "Task Force"s investigative leads and conclusions mirrored the ultimate conclusions of the Warren Commission some nine months later.

I was in touch with Paul McCaghren for a while back in the early 2000's. He was ummmm.... prickly. He told me that Curry picked him because he was the best investigator the Police Department had.

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

28 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron:

The two horns may have been for some reason to signal the position of the car.  And it may be a coincidence.

But that timing is just uncanny.

Jim,

I always thought it was the driver trying to back the car up, telling those clowns to get the hell out of the way.

Steve Thomas

[Andrej Stancak]

Steve:

you are right, Jack Revill was only a member of the investigatory team, not a supervisor. 

 

[David Josephs]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

I always thought it was the driver trying to back the car up, telling those clowns to get the hell out of the way.

Steve Thomas

The point I was looking to make is “where is the xfer vehicle?”

we see headlights coming into the picture on the left,  were they going to back him out of the basement?

if That is the honking car, why is it facing forward...  (edit.. maybe that is the rear.. my bad if so...)
 

And at some point they had to back that car up to get the ambulance down there for Ozzie...

FWIW

 

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by David Josephs

[David Andrews]

8 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

The last I heard, Gabriel only has one horn. (Well, I haven't heard it yet.)

 

 

Duetting with Jack Klugman on The Twilight Zone.

[Steve Thomas]

On 3/22/2020 at 11:19 AM, David Josephs said:

The point I was looking to make is “where is the xfer vehicle?”

we see headlights coming into the picture on the left,  were they going to back him out of the basement?

if That is the honking car, why is it facing forward...  (edit.. maybe that is the rear.. my bad if so...)
 

And at some point they had to back that car up to get the ambulance down there for Ozzie...

FWIW

 

 

David,

I tried to find a written Report from the driver of the car. I haven't found it yet, but I did find this:

Statement by Lt. R.E. Swain of the Burglary and Theft Bureau dated 11/24/63

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339932/?q=Swain

 

Steve Thomas

Edited July 13, 2021 by Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

Thanks Steve... 

Also notice if you set the video to .25 speed, Ruby is lunging out before the horn sounds...  just slightly though... yet not the other way around...

Is that the rear of the vehicle we see?  Big round rear brake lights... or the front ya think?

[Steve Thomas]

33 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks Steve... 

Also notice if you set the video to .25 speed, Ruby is lunging out before the horn sounds...  just slightly though... yet not the other way around...

Is that the rear of the vehicle we see?  Big round rear brake lights... or the front ya think?

David,

It would be the rear of the car.

I'm going on memory here, so if I flub up, forgive me, it's been 20 years or more.

The parking garage, and prisoner receiving area was in the basement off of the street level, so these would be downward sloping ramps.

Logistically, it would be easier to back "down" the ramp, rather than "up" the ramp.

The original plan was to transport Oswald in an armored car. You can see pictures of where they had tried to back that armored car down the ramp, only to find out it was too tall. They had to abandon that plan. (Not much foresight there).

Because of the one-way streets (Commerce and Main), one of the entrances had been historically designated as the "entrance" ramp, and one had been designated as the "exit" ramp. You'd go in one, and out the other.

Because of my hazy memory, I don't remember which was which.

Because of the press of bodies (press, TV cameras, onlookers, and police, etc.), one of the ramps had been closed off. That's why these vehicles were backing in.

Steve Thomas

 

 

[David Andrews]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Also notice if you set the video to .25 speed, Ruby is lunging out before the horn sounds...  just slightly though... yet not the other way around...

 

It doesn't seem like he needed the second honk, he was in a good visual position, just where Oswald would have to make that slight turn.

He was also in prime position for the cameras, coincidentally...  (It was where the hallway widened into the parking lot proper, and there were ranks of press and cops to hide behind.  Ruby couldn't have gotten into the hallway, where he would have been more exposed to scrutiny.)

I would speculate that the ambulance driver, or whoever honked at the stop of the ramp, was instructed to honk when the ambulance was backing up, and the ambulance driver was instructed not to back up until Oswald was in view.  That is, Ruby was told to take the honk as the "Get set" signal, but the ambulance driver wasn't aware of that.  So the driver may have honked again at the bottom of the ramp to avoid pedestrian collision.  He can't have had his eye on Oswald and Ruby while looking over his shoulder at the crowd.

[Steve Thomas]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Because of the one-way streets (Commerce and Main), one of the entrances had been historically designated as the "entrance" ramp, and one had been designated as the "exit" ramp. You'd go in one, and out the other.

Because of my hazy memory, I don't remember which was which.

Main St. was the traditional exit ramp.

Here is Will Fritz talking about transferring Ruby:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

"For the other one to come to the outside door and when he saw our car flush with the door, bring that man right through those cameras and put him in the back seat, and they did, they shot him right through those people and they didn't even get pictures and we had him lie down on the back seat and two officers lean back over him and we drove him straight up that same street. turned to the left down Main Street, ran him into the jail entrance, didn't even tell the jailer we were coming and put him in the jail. It worked all right."

Fritz had also been warned that a mob of about 100 men were going to try and take Oswald. He didn't want Oswald's transport car backing out onto Main St., stopping and making a three-point turn, putting it into drive, and then taking off.

Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

Nice piece in the last Garrison about Rose Cherami and in particular her connection to Ruby and much more.   

[Ron Bulman]

I know there's an old thread or two or three about Rose on the forum I should probably look up but she relates to Ruby as she was a former stripper for him if nothing else. 

First, I just read most of H. P. Albarelli's book A Secret Order a couple of months ago.  Until then I never realized Rose was originally from Houston or that she was a police informant there.  That she left town shortly after the honest, dedicated vice cop she informed to was suicided when his investigations got too close to corrupt cops re selling confiscated drugs.

Then I came across a particularly interesting bit to me in Gary Shaw's article on Rose in the latest Garrison.  I'm pretty sure I had read that her death certificate said DOA, but that for some reason that had been questioned.  I don't remember reading "her hospital records detailed eight hours of medical treatment".  I had also read something about "the possibility of a gunshot wound in the head."  I did not realize this also comes from those hospital records.  I believe I also had read that "the death certificate denotes an autopsy was done... It had disappeared, either lost or destroyed."   How convenient.  Shot in the head.  Left in the road near her luggage to be run over.  Observed by a guy in a parked car who takes off when the guy who runs over her stops.

Rose predicted the assassination to Lt. Fruge, more than one doctor, multiple nurses before and as it happened.  Yet when Fruge called the Dallas Police Department they had "no interest" in her story.  They didn't want to touch her with at ten foot pole.  This has for many years been for me One of the many Rosetta Stones.  Right up there with the Magic, Single, Pristine bullet.  

[Ron Bulman]

In another thread mention was made of a presentation at a Lancer conference by Ian Griggs titled Jack Ruby and the DPD.  I googled him and the title and found references to it, I believe it was the 2011 conference.  Just wondering if anyone out there might know if more about it might be found anywhere.

[Larry Hancock]

Probably the best place to find all of Ian's research, including on the DPD and on Ruby and his Club is in his book No Case to Answer, an excellent work that has never gotten the attention it deserves.  Its available on Amazon.