Heroes of the Kennedy Assassination Research Effort

[Denis Morissette]

My favorite researcher was Gary Mack. He knew so much. Wondering what will happen to his material. Probably donated to the 6FM. He was very accessible and a very solid source of information on the photos and films related to the assassination. His death was a great loss to the research community.

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

My favorite researcher was Gary Mack. He knew so much. Wondering what will happen to his material. Probably donated to the 6FM. He was very accessible and a very solid source of information on the photos and films related to the assassination. His death was a great loss to the research community.

 

Others here say that Gary Mack was a turncoat. Now I don't know what to think.

 

[Ron Ecker]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Others here say that Gary Mack was a turncoat. Now I don't know what to think.

 

He continued to believe there was a conspiracy, but IMO he put a higher value on his job at the museum than on personal conviction. Whether there were other things that he valued more than his conviction before he got the museum job, I don't know.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

11 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

He continued to believe there was a conspiracy, but IMO he put a higher value on his job at the museum than on personal conviction. Whether there were other things that he valued more than his conviction before he got the museum job, I don't know.

 

On the Gary Mack Passed Away thread I discovered that Gary was in charge of things at the museum, and I learned that 1) LN books sold there outnumbered CT books 10 to 1;   and 2) every person (or nearly every person) who was invited to speak at the museum was an LNer. If it was Gary Mack who made those decisions, then I would label him a turncoat too.

 

[Ron Ecker]

3 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

On the Gary Mack Passed Away thread I discovered that Gary was in charge of things at the museum, and I learned that 1) LN books sold there outnumbered CT books 10 to 1;   and 2) every person (or nearly every person) who was invited to speak at the museum was an LNer. If it was Gary Mack who made those decisions, then I would label him a turncoat too.

 

Yes, he can be called a turncoat. The question is why he did it. I suppose someone could write a book, though of course the museum wouldn't sell it.

 

 

[Pete Mellor]

Having read through this thread,  with the mention of Malcolm Blunt, Bart Kamp and Anthony Summers from this side of the pond, may I include the late Ian Griggs, who initiated Dealey Plaza U.K. back in the 1990's.  He attended many Lancer conferences and gave presentations there in 2003 & 2013 when I attended.  He published his book 'No Case to Answer' & accumulated many contacts with ex DPD officers.  He also encouraged many U.K. authors & researchers over the years, including Mathew Smith and fellow Forum member Chris Scally who has researched both the Zapruder and Nix films.  His dedication to the JFK case also resulted in DPUK members contributing to the book 'JFK Echoes From Elm Street'.  Maybe not a hero, but to quote The Kinks, a well respected man.

[Joe Bauer]

P. Mellor, in your reading of Griggs work and hearing him speak and perhaps through your own reading and research, do you have a general sense of the political, racial and even corruption make up of any number of members of the Dallas Police Department back in 1963?

How bad was it?

I know other researchers have written about this subject but since you mentioned Griggs and his focus on at least some aspects of the DPD at that time including interviewing former officers, I am hoping you have some thoughts on this?

Did any of the officers Griggs interviewed give up anything remotely intriguingly suspicious about the assassination itself, the political and racial make up of their own organization, feelings toward JFK, Jack Ruby etc, including the security measures taken in transferring Oswald which resulted in the worst case scenario possible?

My feel from my limited reading is that Dallas's Police and even Sheriff's department was rife with a stark racism and alignments with the most extreme far right political organizations such as the John Birch Society, Minutemen even the KKK.

In this context, a large number of these department members must have viewed JFK as the worst kind of mortal enemy...a Ni**er Lover AND a Commie!

And we know that many big city police departments all across the country before and up to 1963 had huge rates of internal corruption. Of course Dallas had it's share of this ( Jack Ruby's DPD connections alone are worth a small book ) and their own Mafia head Joe Campisi seems to have had no major problems with the police for decades in keeping his operation going there.

And lastly, are you of the view that Jack Ruby was provided some access assistance into the Dallas PD building the morning of 11,24,1963?

And do you have any thoughts on Dallas DA Henry Wade regards all the points I listed concerning the DPD?

I don't think one can logically separate these issues from and say they have no bearing in the larger context of the JFK assassination occurring specifically in Dallas at that time.

Thanks for your response.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Chris Scally]

Pete Mellor -

Thanks for your kind words about Ian - he was a wonderful friend, mentor, and an endless source of good information and advice. He is, and long will continue to be, sorely missed.  As you so rightly said, a well-respected man! 

[Chris Scally]

Denis Morissette - totally agree with you re Gary Mack. I wonder how many of those who jump on every opportunity to malign him ever had any direct dealings with him? Probably not too many, I'd guess. As you said  he was very accessible and a solid source of information, and he never once refused to help me, no matter what I sought. His passing, like that of Ian Griggs, was a major loss to the research community. 

[John Butler]

6 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Having read through this thread,  with the mention of Malcolm Blunt, Bart Kamp and Anthony Summers from this side of the pond, may I include the late Ian Griggs, who initiated Dealey Plaza U.K. back in the 1990's.  He attended many Lancer conferences and gave presentations there in 2003 & 2013 when I attended.  He published his book 'No Case to Answer' & accumulated many contacts with ex DPD officers.  He also encouraged many U.K. authors & researchers over the years, including Mathew Smith and fellow Forum member Chris Scally who has researched both the Zapruder and Nix films.  His dedication to the JFK case also resulted in DPUK members contributing to the book 'JFK Echoes From Elm Street'.  Maybe not a hero, but to quote The Kinks, a well respected man.

Thanks for mentioning Ian Griggs.  I will include him with some of your description.

Thanks again

[Pete Mellor]

5 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

P. Mellor, in your reading of Griggs work and hearing him speak and perhaps through your own reading and research, do you have a general sense of the political, racial and even corruption make up of any number of members of the Dallas Police Department back in 1963?

How bad was it?

I know other researchers have written about this subject but since you mentioned Griggs and his focus on at least some aspects of the DPD at that time including interviewing former officers, I am hoping you have some thoughts on this?

Did any of the officers Griggs interviewed give up anything remotely intriguingly suspicious about the assassination itself, the political and racial make up of their own organization, feelings toward JFK, Jack Ruby etc, including the security measures taken in transferring Oswald which resulted in the worst case scenario possible?

My feel from my limited reading is that Dallas's Police and even Sheriff's department was rife with a stark racism and alignments with the most extreme far right political organizations such as the John Birch Society, Minutemen even the KKK.

In this context, a large number of these department members must have viewed JFK as the worst kind of mortal enemy...a Ni**er Lover AND a Commie!

And we know that many big city police departments all across the country before and up to 1963 had huge rates of internal corruption. Of course Dallas had it's share of this ( Jack Ruby's DPD connections alone are worth a small book ) and their own Mafia head Joe Campisi seems to have had no major problems with the police for decades in keeping his operation going there.

And lastly, are you of the view that Jack Ruby was provided some access assistance into the Dallas PD building the morning of 11,24,1963?

And do you have any thoughts on Dallas DA Henry Wade regards all the points I listed concerning the DPD?

I don't think one can logically separate these issues from and say they have no bearing in the larger context of the JFK assassination occurring specifically in Dallas at that time.

Thanks for your response.

Lots of points here Joe!  Let me say Ian Griggs was a U.K. uniform & C.I.D. police officer.  He not only attended Lancer, but also ASK, COPA & 4th Decade.  He knew the structure & quite a bit of the history of the DPD.  His interviews of assassination related personnel included Bobby Hargis, Jim Leavelle, Chuck Brehm, Jean Hill, Ed Hoffman, Bill Newman, Aubrey Rike, Johnny Calvin Brewer...the list goes on and on.  His Lancer presentation in 2013 was 'Jack Ruby & the DPD'.  Your question " are you of the view that Jack Ruby was provided some access assistance into the Dallas PD building the morning of 11,24,1963?  After his presentation Ian was asked this very question.  Ian stated that without solid evidence nobody knows, but he did think that the scene was one of chaos.  As it was all weekend with not just the press all over the building but Ruby too.  To misquote Hamlet, there was certainly something rotten in the state of Texas.  

As for my own views, I'm probably like yourself, a long time avid book reader on the case.  The DPD in the 60's, just like in the U.K., had police corruption, maybe not the cop on the beat, but amongst the higher ups.  I'm sure the DPD reflected the wider populous in regard to political and racial affiliations.  

Finally my thoughts on Henry Wade concur with other posts on this forum.  It is well known he did not have great regard for solid investigations of crimes, his aim was a guilty verdict.

[Joe Bauer]

3 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Lots of points here Joe!  Let me say Ian Griggs was a U.K. uniform & C.I.D. police officer.  He not only attended Lancer, but also ASK, COPA & 4th Decade.  He knew the structure & quite a bit of the history of the DPD.  His interviews of assassination related personnel included Bobby Hargis, Jim Leavelle, Chuck Brehm, Jean Hill, Ed Hoffman, Bill Newman, Aubrey Rike, Johnny Calvin Brewer...the list goes on and on.  His Lancer presentation in 2013 was 'Jack Ruby & the DPD'.  Your question " are you of the view that Jack Ruby was provided some access assistance into the Dallas PD building the morning of 11,24,1963?  After his presentation Ian was asked this very question.  Ian stated that without solid evidence nobody knows, but he did think that the scene was one of chaos.  As it was all weekend with not just the press all over the building but Ruby too.  To misquote Hamlet, there was certainly something rotten in the state of Texas.  

As for my own views, I'm probably like yourself, a long time avid book reader on the case.  The DPD in the 60's, just like in the U.K., had police corruption, maybe not the cop on the beat, but amongst the higher ups.  I'm sure the DPD reflected the wider populous in regard to political and racial affiliations.  

Finally my thoughts on Henry Wade concur with other posts on this forum.  It is well known he did not have great regard for solid investigations of crimes, his aim was a guilty verdict.

Thank you.

[Cliff Varnell]

Gil Jesus

 

[Joseph McBride]

I thought the initial post praising Gary Mack was a joke, but I guess

not. Don't people understand how he sold out and the damage he

did to the research community?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

I thought the initial post praising Gary Mack was a joke, but I guess

not. Don't people understand how he sold out and the damage he

did to the research community?

Gary was a mixed bag. He was quite active behind the scenes in the early days of the forum. If you asked a dumb question or made a weak claim he would send you a PM telling you you should do your homework, but if you turned around and asked him about where to find such and such a quote, or who took what photo, etc, he could be very generous with his help. 

While it's easy for some to say Gary sold out for money, I'm not so sure that's the case. Year after year of veterans fighting over the same old stuff, and newbies popping up thinking they know it all when they don't know scat, will wear on a guy. I've come to know a lot of the vets of the case. Most of them are as closed-minded as Gary. 

The problem, for me, was that Gary's position at the sixth floor elevated him into a position where the media would seek him out and prop him up as THE expert, when he was far from it.  He knew a lot, but made some brain-dead mistakes on the bullet trajectories, etc.

On a personal note, there was an outtake to one of the TV specials on which Gary consulted that strongly supported my research. The producers didn't need to, but they put it up on youtube shortly after the special aired on TV. I've always suspected Gary had something to do with that, and have always felt grateful for it.